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Acapella vs. Avantgarde

I currently run a Cary CD-306, Cary SLP-05 preamp, and Cary 805AE monoblocks with a pair of ProAc D38's (see system). The combination is sweet and involving, but the combo just does not boogie when asked to play a large orchestral piece, by Mahler/Wagner/Shostakovich. When the volume is turned up, dynamics are poor and the system starts to sound compressed. I suspect that the 50W Cary's simply does not have enough guts to drive the ProAc's, so I am considering replacing them with a more efficient speaker. Since most SET afficionadoes love horns, this led me to look into Avantgarde and Acapella.

I live in Melbourne, Australia. Avantgarde is available through a dealer here, but he does not have any in stock. The Acapella dealer is in Sydney (a plane flight away). I am looking to spend A$30,000 - which will buy a nice Avantgarde Duo, or a secondhand Acapella High Violon.

I have read plenty about the dynamics of the Avantgardes, but my concern is if they have horn coloration. Also, how do they image? Are they sensitive to room placement?

Would the Acapella High Violon's be a better buy, considering the pair I can potentially get my hands on have been heavily discounted? I have read that Acapella's suffer from disjointed sound because of the three different driver technologies (plasma tweeter, horn mids, conventional woofer). How much is this a problem? And are there any room placement issues? Given that the Acapella's have lower sensitivity (91 dB/W/m) would I be achieving a real upgrade by moving from the ProAc's?
amfibius
flg2001's avatar
flg2001
543 posts
 
Amfibius - You did an excelent jon at describing the Avantgarde main sonic characteristics (all fixable) - just a couple of things IMO.

The sub settings will help you integrating the AG sound a lot, it takes time, but well rewarded, and also, check your cable options (AC, interconect and speaker) since they also play a major role here.

As I said, Siltech worked for my system, but I have also heard that Nirvana works well.

From that point, you can play with upgrades, better frames, subs as time/financlals allow - these are keepers for sure.

Regards,

Fernando
whart's avatar
whart
1,930 posts
 
Sounds like most of your issues are set-up issues. I don't know what Jim Smith's view of the following would be, but I heard a pair of the big JBL K2s a while back where the speakers were literally in the corners of the room, on the long wall, toed-in pretty significantly, to aim at a listening position that was about as far away as you are describing, and they sounded wonderful (using my turntable and a small ViVa integrated, which I think is more euphonic than my Lamm set-up). Taking a look at the pics of your room, and how you describe it, I'm wondering if you could experiment a little to get greater effective distance by spreading the speakers farther apart and toe-ing in more.
I would think that the 1.5 m distance that the dealer had between the speakers was not enough, and I agree that the image coheres at a listening distance greater than 9 ft, which I barely exceed in my set-up. My biggest tuning issue was not placement, though, but the right settings on the woofs, once I had the electronics and cables to my satisfaction.
amfibius OP
282 posts
 
If you want to read more of my thoughts on this speaker, I have posted them in another forum. Here is the link:

http://www.planetaudio.com.au/forum/index.php?showtopic=2422

Fernando, I noticed that the dealer was using what appeared to be normal electric lamp wire rather than proper speaker cable to wire the sub to the mid/tweeter horns. Of course I could be wrong, but when they are that thin and have multistranded copper and no spade/banana plug terminations, you have to wonder. I'm not a big believer in speaker cables (having never heard much of a difference in my system) but i'll keep an open mind on this one.

Whart you are right - mostly setup issues. But I am very careful about how I select my speaker! It is easier to just buy the right speaker than to have to demolish walls and extend rooms!

Just a couple more questions.

1. The Duo's might be too big for my room. What do people think of the Uno's? Are they just like a Duo, but smaller? If I order a pair, i will probably get them with the optional SUB225 module.

2. What about the Uno variants, like the Uno Nano?
joey_v
455 posts
 
Amfibius,

Great impressions you posted. I'm wondering though, you're spending this much on speakers and are still willing to compromise integration/coherence in your own "smaller" listening room and you are willing to sacrifice an overly tall soundstage, too?

Maybe if the Acapellas dont wow you, perhaps it's time to look at what else the industry has to offer.
whart's avatar
whart
1,930 posts
 
Ambfib- you do not have to be a "believer" to hear profound differences between the factory supplied jumpers and after market cables. It is not subtle. It sounds like the dealer did not show the speakers off to anywhere near their capablity. I think you would be astounded if they are set up well. (And I say this, not as an advocate just for the Avantgardes vs. the Acapellas or any other brand, but simply because I have experienced the differences as I have changed out wire, repositioned the speakers, played with the woofer tuning, added acoustic treatment to my room, experimented with different combinations of preamp/amp and long/short wire configurations, as well as brands of wire).
I cannot give you any insight into the real world experience with Uno or its variants- I have none.
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