Anyone listen to Zu Audio's Definition Mk3?

Phil, I really value your thoughts/opinions on all these topics, I think I'm getting a handle on all the decisive factors in going to the next level. The UK Audion dealer demos the Audion SETs thru the Audion Premier valve line stage pre amp, are you familiar with this unit? I see that you personally run your Black Shadow 845s thru a Klimo pre amp, any reasons why no Audion pre? If I go down the SET route, I may keep the Hovland HP200 pre to run things thru, and relegate the Hovland Radia to AV rear channel duties (a bit of a shame since I really love it's sound), unless the Audion Premier or Silvercore/Music First TVCs do it for me. The UK dealer really rates the Silvercore: it's a fantastically put together piece of kit, maybe it could swing you back to the TVC fold if you heard it?
I'm a little suprised to see that even though you run a balanced power transformer in your system, which I do and heartily recommend, you still apply conditioning to the power amp. For years I ran everything thru a Burmester 948 conditioner ($6000+), and despite all the transparency improvements wrought over untreated mains, there was definitely a squeezing of dynamics. Switching to a cheap ($600) 4kV industrial balanced power transformer, all the transparency was maintained with a fantastic increase in dynamic grip; I'll NEVER go back to any conditioning again, and am v. interested in looking at a pro transformer Westwick, 85kg! of copper 8kV isolation. So, you still feel even with balanced isolation to mains you still need conditioning to the power amp?

Obrown,

I am certainly no expert like Phil, but I have 2 pairs of Omen Defs (one with upgrade HO drivers, caps and internal wiring, and one stock pair). I have them in an upstairs loft, 35' x 15' x 8' (the second pair used for surround sound right now). I have taken the non-upgraded pair down into our family room and hooked them up to a 65 watt Yamaha receiver. That room is about 25' x 20' x 9' and opens into a very large kitchen area. The Omens sound very, very good even in the family room with the Yamaha receiver. I find the Zu speakers to be very good in almost any setup (especially the Omen Defs, which are very friendly to solid state equipment) -- I don't think you will have a problem with just plopping them down and getting good sound (much better than a 1992 pair of Infinity speakers -- I used to own the RS3B's).

That being said, I have found that with a little work and persistence, the Omen Defs can sound fabulous. It takes some time fiddling with the gap space under the speaker to the amount of distance between the speakers and toe-in to get the best results, but mine have never sounded bad in any room, in any set-up. I have found they tend to sound better to me with a wider distance between the speakers and more toe-in, compared to other speakers I have owned.

I do use an Audion Premier preamp on one of my systems. It is an earlier generation, with full remote control (volume plus switching). The sound of Audion preamps is in the same class as their power amps. The Klimo is in one system as a consequence of once having had Audiopax 88 power amplifiers, for which Audion's preamps did not have enough gain to drive (the Audiopax having only 18 db of gain and unusually low input sensitivity, requiring a preamp of 20 - 25 db gain), and the Klimo brings similar qualities so there was no need to replace it when I replaced the Audiopax with Audion's Black Shadow.

My Black Shadow monoblocks don't consume enough power to be dynamically constrained by light power conditioning. When I had higher-power amplifiers in the past, I did run them straight from the wall but in this case there's no dynamic difference. It's a peculiarity of my present location that mild power conditioning lowers the noise floor a bit whithout dynamic penalty. In another power neighborhood my configuration might be different. I'll likely add balanced power for the power amps and when I do, I am sure I won't be using power conditioning with it.

But I'll make an earlier point again: Balance is my measure, and that includes balance between my interests. My systems are in a good state of equilibrium today. My next push is to prepare for adding hard disk playback by settling on DAC choices that also benefit optical disc playback.

Phil

Phil, balanced power really has opened up my system, and in my area we have internet booster stations, industrial power plants etc. which really introduce vast amounts of current/voltage variability and grunge into the local electricity supply. Treating the problem at source with balanced power has been a real eye (ear?) opener, so I am curious to investigate pro studio gear as well, esp. if I stick with the Hovland Radia ss 125w/ch plus rear channel amp. I think that even change to SETs will benefit esp. with any hint of transformer hum etc.
Your upgrading is going down the path of DACs whereas I want to look at a final turntable upgrade, and I am really curious to go down the idler/direct drive route, of which I have chosen a few value for money choices: Trans Fi Salvation idler with linear tracking Terminator T3Pro tonearm ($5000), Inspire Monarch which uses the Technics SL-1200 motor/drive ($7000), and Brinkmann Bardo direct drive ($8000). I gather you've moved away from belt drive. Have you found this as much a paradigm shift as moving over to SET power amps?

>>I gather you've moved away from belt drive<<

This made me chuckle. Circa 1976 I owned at once a Linn Sondek, Luxman PD444 and a Transcriptor Glass Skeleton. I've been using the Luxman PD441 and 444 turntables for 36 years. In the meantime, Linn, Pink Triangle, VPI, Mission and several other belt drive turntables have come and gone. Along the way I found the Luxman direct drives could be significantly improved by replacing the stock spring/elastromer feet with brass cones on Aurios media bearings. At the time, the Luxman PD444 was the best sounding direct drive turntable of its era, better still than the Technics SP10 and SP25, and it has remained the table to beat in my systems. I have two PD444s with the footing upgrades. So me using direct drive is not a recent thing nor a "move away from belt drive." I used both drive technologies together in my systems over the years, but about ten years ago sold my last belt-drive turntable. I haven't heard anything belt-driven to persuade me to return, save possibly the top version of the VPI Classic.

If Luxman hadn't made the PD44X turntables, I'd probably have been using belt drive all these years. The design choices made for these tables were exceptional and in some respects resemble choice Harry Weisfeld arrived at for his Classic series about 35 years after the Luxmans were engineered. The Luxman PD444 weighs about 65 lbs because its plinth sandwiches a chipboard (better than MDF for resonance control) core between a heavy iron plate and an aluminum top sheet. The drive motor, custom built by Tokyo Electric, includes magnetic repulsion for a "load-free spindle" (really, load reduced bearing), phase-lock loop and a perimeter-mass platter to smooth out any residual "hunting." At a time when an armless Linn Sondek cost $350 in the US, the Luxman PD444 was $895.

The closest equivalent today is the Brinkmann Oasis, and if I were to replace my Luxmans today, that's what I'd buy.

Now, each drive technology sounds different. I did briefly own a Thorens TD124 in 1975. Less was investigated back then about plinthing idler drive turntables in domestic hifi, and idlers had fast lost respect for their problems. But remembering the energetic drive of that Thorens, a couple of years ago I bought a nearly NOS Garrard 401, had a birch-stack plinth made for it and topped it with a Thomas Schick tonearm to use with Ortofon SPU cartridges. That has proved a sufficiently entertaining alternative to the Luxmans that I am pretty sure I'll upgrade it with a slate, slate/wood or solid wood (blocks laminated) plinth. The Luxmans have the more precise, objective sound. The Garrard/Schick/SPU produces a big, robust, bursty sound less extractive of detail than the Luxman, but more imbued with sheer emotion.

I used the direct drive Luxman for 25 years before moving my systems to SET amps about ten years ago, and then to Zu + SET in 2005. So the "shift" between drive systems had different origins. Modern SET + Zu overcame a multi-decades dissatisfaction with hifi for me. The ability to at once be relieved of the incoherence, phase anomalies and dynamic choking of crossover-based speakers and enjoy the absence of crossover grunge in push-pull tube amps, get the tonal completeness and integrity of SET and wideband drivers, with modern sonic accuracy ended the futility intrinsic to high end audio as a pursuit, for me. It was a far bigger development than choosing turntable drive systems. Since placing Zu + Audion SET in my systems, a wider range of music has been made listenable and enjoyable. My patience for truly advancing upgrades is Zen-like. And I am entirely opportunity-focused about improvements rather than chasing irritations around the edges because the central topological problems in speakers and amps weren't solvable.

It's not that I am upgrading via DACs as much as I am going to expand by adding another source, and if I can get an upgrade to optical, terrific. We're clearly, in the waning years of Redbook CD, getting more options for good sound from that format than in all the years of the format's existence up to, say, 2009. So this is worth paying attention to.

When you're evaluating turntables/tonearms/cartridges, beware the many contemporary devices that succeed in making vinyl sound more like CD. Prioritize simplicity and quality of execution. And remember, you have to live with the device day-to-day, which can be different from 2 hours in a store.

Phil