Are you Guys Rich or What!?

I think building up to a wworld class system over time is the way to go. I'm more or less in my fourth system since my graduate school years (11 yrs ago). I started out with a reasonable mid fi sstem (Denon/JBL), them upgrade the speakers, then the pre amp, etc, etc. One step at a time..and Audiogon. I guess my system now would run over $ 45 retail..but the only items I bought new were the REL sub, the Solidsteel stand and the Linn LP12 front end..though I bought the latter in Euroep as I was moving to the US. The rest were either second hand or store demos. Yes, I make decent money. No, I wouldn't go out and splurge on the latest, flavour of the day interconnects for $ 2000, or change my CD player as frequently as my underwear. At some point you do reach diminishing returns.. and the most important thing (the room) is the toughest one to upgrade.

I think less than 10 people have heard my system thus far (including family). It's in its own room in the basement, not on diplay in the living room..and there is only one decent chair in the room. Most folks have no clue what is costs, and I don't tell them. What matters is the music.

There is a moral issue in how much we spend on audio or any consumption although most of people in a capitalist society are standing in the other side of the line. It may be that the issue is metaphysical to the degree that it hardly fits the scope of this forum, regradless of where you stand. At any rate, let alone moral implications, there is one more thing to think about -- namely opportunity cost. If the opportunity cost of that 75K is minimal for you, you can go ahead and spend it however you desire within the boundary of capitalitic ethos, which is what the capitalism is about. If you are spending without that consideration (i.e., while not being so affluent), I think you will have a dilemma there. For instance, a question can be raised with respect to how much in proportion you allow for yourself with other members of the family. I came to a conclusion that 5K to 7K is adequate for my home economy. Of course, as my net wealth grows, I might upgrade my system. But, I probably won't because besides the fact that I have hobbies other than audio that require money in, the price differential is hard to justify the improvement. Of course, that is a subjective assessment. For those who are affluent enough to consider 75K "not much," the improvement may be well appreciated even when the opportunity cost is taken into consideration. On the other hand, I feel that people are actually doing themselves a favor by refusing to buy super expensive gears -- Rolex or whatever -- in the long run. Let me put it this way, if everyone refuses to buy Rolex or Ferrari on the issue of price, do you think if the companies will go out of business or come back with more palpable pricing? Their modus operandi is to maximize profits. By creating a market segment filled with status symbols with proper quality and therefore product differentiation, they are maximizing their profits by selling less at higher price. Not because they will lose money by selling more at lower price. Since I am a quasi to pseudo audiophile, I much prefer to boycott 15K monoblocks, for instance, even when I may be able to afford it. A simple choice to protect and enhance my own interests to enjoy better gears at lower price in the long term. Of course, the aura of status or whatever may well be gone since the premium for the aura is removed by then -- well, at least for Rolex. I have no problem with those who can afford them. However, if the trend reported is true that the number of diehard audiophiles among middle class has been declining, I am confident that many high end companies will revise the current business model in terms of price, at least partially. Because some, though less than before, profits are better than none by abandoning the business altogether. Why shouldn't they evolve when everybody else has to? But, I am pretty darn sure that I am stuck with my gears since that won't happen in my life time. For those gears are specifically marketed to people in a gated community, many of whom are well groomed by the industry as well (that is, no consumer protection by counterbalancing the power of suppliers with most consumer audiophile magazines being self-congratulatory with the manufacturers, let alone minimal criticism from consumers). So, some of you need not bless me to keep my current gears to the grave -- thanks for the thought, though. At the same time, my simplistic argument will not be met with sympathy; after all, I am talking to audiophiles. And, who knows, I may join the Force of Dark Side. By the way, the nature of business environment for the high end audio industry can be identified as monopolistic competition (not true competition); in other words, they thrive on product differentiation to different sonic taste, which is why we have so many functionally similar yet sonically different gears in the market. So, you need not worry about less diversity when the industry business model changes, since they can make more profits by being diverse before and after. Gentlemen (and ladies), get your eggs ready... P.S. I totally agree with those who think one can get a very reasonably good system with 7K...

Cogito - There is an excellent book titled "Luxury Fever" that discusses the phenomena you refer to of the constant need / push to define "the best" (of whatever) in increasingly fantastic (and expensive) terms. The author argues, much as you do, that by participating in these areas by purchasing the high-end version of whatever, you're fueling the need to move it to a higher level. Hence, the effect of buying a state-of-the-art $100K speaker system is that you're helping to push the definition of state-of-the-art to $200K. The author goes on to argue that this type of luxury should have the crap taxed out of it such that the only people who would actually pay for it are the truest of enthusiasts who are buying it for the enhanced performance.

Using the phrase "moral issue" is bound to inflame the conversation, and maybe those who have used it don't intend it as strongly as it sounds. At the very least, the subject of audio equipment and a specific price point is completely arbitrary as it relates to the moral aspects of this conversation - I just sold a rental house for the same price range as the audio equipment we're talking about even though I could have moved my family there, sold my more expensive house that we currently live in, and used the proceeds for a more noble cause. The same type of thing happens dozens of times a week to almost anyone living in a capitalist society, just at different levels.

As those who have read my previous posts know, I believe in VALUE when it comes to assembling a high-quality audio system. If you are just starting into this hobby, used gear is the best way to start, and there are some great buys on Audiogon. For about $5000, you can build a very good system based on CD sources. If you plan to invest in vinyl playback as well, you will have to add another $1000-1500. Here are some suggestions: 1. If you are going to use your system for home theater as well as audio, get a good quality DVD/CD player. The 16-bit CD is already "old technology", so get a DVD player with 24/96 capability. 2. Get a good quality integrated amp, such as Bryston's BP-60 or Musical Fidelity's CR3 (available from Audio Advisor), OR a good preamp/power amp combo from manufacturers such as B&K, Adcom, Rotel, Parasound, or Acurus. 3. Speakers: you can get a very good used pair of monitor speakers plus subwoofer for $1500-2000. Interconnects: either buy good quality used cables from this site (such as Kimber Silver Streak or Hero) or www.usedcables.com, or new ones from HomeGrownAudio or www.bettercables.com. By way of example, here is my current system that I have assembled primarily from purchases on Audiogon or from dealers such as "Bestofdeal@aol.com". My main speakers: Vandersteen 3A Signature (MSRP $3500 - paid $2500). Center channel speaker: Vandersteen VCC-1 (MSRP $500 - paid $325). Rear surround speakers: Coincident Triumph Signatures (MSRP $1100 - paid $650). DVD player: Pioneer DV-37 (MSRP $1000 - paid $650 new). Preamp / processor: Adcom GTP 750 (MSRP $1900 - paid $1150 for unit with 4 weeks use). Main power amp: Bryston 4B-ST (MSRP $2400 - paid $1650 new). Surround power amp: Adcom 5503 (MSRP $1300 - paid $650 nearly new). Speaker cables: Kimber Kable 8TC bi-wire pairs (MSRP $385 - paid $225 with terminations). Silver interconnects by HomeGrown Audio. Total cost of system (some new, some used): about &7500 without turntable, etc. If you add in my VPI HW-19 Mk 4 with Rega 900 arm and cartridge (MSRP about $3K - paid $1600), and a Sony 32" WEGA TV, the total cost of my home theater system is just over $10,000. That's less than the cheapest decent car on the market, and I get a hell of a lot more enjoyment from it than owning a Hyundai or Daewoo. The only "caveats" are: your value system must place good music and sound high on the priority list; you must be willing to assemble the system over time, as you find the right pieces; and you must be willing to act quickly to buy when pieces become available. If you have a year or so to invest in some shrewd shopping, you can build a great system for 35-50% less than MSRP.