Atma-Sphere M60 or David Berning ZH270?

Laoyuap, just to complicate things a little more, the Berning with all of the mods that Allan Bhagan has come up sounds notably different than the stock Berning. Neither Duke nor Swampwalker indicated whether they heard a stock Berning or a modded one (although I seem to remember from a previous thread that Swampwalker heard a fully modded one? Not sure). I think that most of us Berning owners have gone for the mods, and are very happy with them. Of course, the modifications do cost some additional money, but IMO the mods are worth it.

For the record my ZH-270 is partially modded. It has the cryo output tubes/ERS mod. And I am using Merlin VSM-MMs right now.

I have owned Coincident Super Eclipses; smaller Victory; and for the past couple of years the Total Victory. I have used many different amplifiers on them, and have found a good push-pull triode circuit to me most effective (especially on any of the models BUT the smaller Victory, which is really the ONLY Coincident speaker in my humble opinion that can make do with an SE amp <20 watts).

The Super E's do like a bit of power (amps that have worked well on them in the past for me were the 1009 60-watt ASL PP triode 845 monos; and a very cool set of modded Altec 1570B's using a pair of 811's per amp- they were fantastic with the SE's. Trelja made a good point though- the Super E's WILL show up ANY harshness in upstream componentry, so audition with the speakers IF you can...

I have even bi-amped the Super E's in the past, which can produce fantastic results, and I am about to try it with the Total Victorys- ARC VT100MKIII on bass/mis-bass; and a customized pp2A3 on mids/ribbon tweeter- it's going to be a fun experiment!

In summary, to Trelja's other point, Israel is definitely in the transformer-based tube amp camp, and as I live 5 minutes from him, we have had a lot of fun trying many amps with all of the Coincident speakers. Our most recent experiment was a set of the Dehavilland 50-watt GM70 SET monos. Except for not being able to rock and roll too well, the were superb on the Super E's- excellent detail and delicacy- on the smaller less 'hungry' Victory, I could probably live with them, as I have become a big fan of the medium-high power big triodes (845; but even better the 211). One day for a second system, I want to get back to the smaller Victory's in a smaller room with the Air Tight ATM-211's- something tells me that would be a magnificent combo...

hmmm bery interesting thread. i had the Atma's in my system (the MA-1's) and loved them with my Sonus Faber Guarneri Homage's, in fact i liked them much more than amps from VTL, AR, Bel Canto and CJ. Ultimately, i preferred the sound of the Atma's, but but there were some serious practical considerations - heat ( A LOT OF IT, which is ok in MN winter, but any other time of the year, forget it), open tubes (i have a 2 and a 4 yr old), monoblock design and upkeep(not cheap).

Still, as i have mentioned in other posts, i was still ready to buy a set - then i bought the Berning, mostly on a whim, and have not looked back. It provided 95% of all that 'magic' that atmas did, yet gave better bass and dynamics, and runs only as hot as a 300 watt light bulb. I love this amp more than anything else in my system (well, equal to the Guarneris)

Having said all that, i think both are excellent, but for my $, the Berning is a better all-around performer, and has all those built-in practical advantages.

Sutts writes:

smaller Victory .... which is really the ONLY Coincident speaker in my humble opinion that can make do with an SE amp <20 watts

I use Super Eclipse Series II with 8 watt 300Bs (Welborne Lab Laurels Ultimate Upgrade) and in my apartment they are superb. Obviously I don't listen at high volumes; and the original poster likes "20 century's big symphony orchestra works" so I can see that he needs more power than I do. We have the same size listening room though.

Sutts, thanks for your insight into the Coincident models you have owned. I was at CES last week and Israel was making nice music with Super E Series III and Manley amps.

Regards,