Attention Scientists, Engineers and Na-s


Isn't it funny how timing works. With all the different discussions on proving this, show me fact on that and the psycho acoustical potential of the other thing an article comes along with the same topics and some REAL potential answers. I received my newest copy of "The Audiophile Voice" Vol.7, Issue1 today and on page 16 is an article written by David Blair and Bill Eisen titled "In The Matter Of Noise". The article focuses on disturbance noise but has some reference to thermal noise, low frequency noise and shot noise, and our ability to measure these noises with the equipment of today. We have measured noise as low as 6x10 to the power of -5, or approximately a few cycles per day. We have also found through laboratory testing that the human brain is stimulated with frequencies from just above 0Hz to just below 50kHz. U.S. Department of Defense documents also show studies of low frequency activity below measurable levels and there various affects.
The article then begins to talk about out of band (hearing) noise and in band noise produced by our electronic equipment and the potential of these noises effecting our sound system. The assumptions are that "disturbance noises rob our systems of dynamics, low-level information, tonal purity and stage depth". These effects are for the most part overlooked and misunderstood by the scientific communities. They say they think that our speakers being hit with "massive quantities of R.F.I. are affected" A very good quote referring to power filters was "Effective noise control imposes no sonic tradeoffs or downside." How often have the discussions here on Audiogon focused on what they are doing? A very interesting comment was that Teflon is capable of carrying 40-Kilovolts static charge, and the industry is touting this as a great insulator for audio signals, that's scarey!
Now I bring this to light because I believe the view of the "Scientists and Engineers" here on Audiogon is so narrow that they are failing to see the exciting challenges in front of them. If all these noises do exist, which they do, and they can be transmitted and received through our systems, isn't possible, just maybe feasible that the insulation of our wires, the casing of our dedicated lines the size and shape of the conductor could, just maybe effect the sound? Isn't it even possible that forces set off by electrical components could be interfering in some so far unmeasured and inaudible way affecting the sound. Do you all test within the full spectrum of 0Hz to 50Khz for every possible situation? Or is it possible, just ever so small of a chance that you are overlooking a whole new science yet unexplored. Doesn't that, even slightly excite your little scientific fossils?
Man if I was younger, healthier and wanted a challenge. This is a career if you'd just climb out from behind you oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzer and see the world is indeed still spinning, and yes, it is 2001. Remember how 30 years ago 2001 was going to be so exciting. What the hell have the Scientist, Engineers and Na-sayers who tote there stuff here on Audiogon done for the advancement of science. Anyone, have any of you really broken through! J.D.
128x128jadem6
Superb post, Philphans!!

I don't pretend to get the science behind it, but I do know from experience IC's do make a difference. I don't know that I'd notice the change if someone snuck the original ICs back on my gear, but I know for a fact that I hear a difference between them and the ones I use and the other sets I bought and don't use. The differences are small, subtle, but decidedly audible. I tend to discount the hyperbolic claims that an IC suddenly brought out a gigantic soundstage or made the system mesmerisingly involving or any of that, but if someone tells me that there is less grain in the treble, or better definition in the bass, or some similarly reasonable change in their swap, I can believe it. For the more grandiose claims, I mostly figure it was probably time to clean and tighten the contacts (it can be quite astounding the difference that can make!) and a new set of IC's were just part of the deal.

As to power, well, I haven't gotten to that point in the progression of my audiophilia yet, but I don't preclude the possibility. Electricity is a wacky thing, capable of popping up in the most amusing and haphazard places and ways. The best I can manage right now is a dedicated circuit and a Monster strip (only my oldest amp has non-stock PC, and that actually looks more like somebody built it on the weekend using spare parts from a job site than a proper PC). As to what the heck is going on when that public utility power slams its way into my transformers, I suspect I'd actually rather not know, but since I want my tranformers to do the best they can, it makes sense to me to make it as easy as possible for them by providing plenty o clean juice. My opinion is that this is one area where you get what you pay for - good gear has better transformers, etc. Could be completely wrong, but then, I have an amp that makes much better music with its upgrades than it did stock. Wonder why?

The only objection I have is in pricing this stuff; I just don't believe it's based on sonics at all. Obviously, it can't be in R & D; that would mean a science based reason would exist for whatever properties manufacturers claim for their cables, and few if any of them try suggesting that seriously. So it must be in materials and processes - except that pure gold cables wouldn't cost what some of these outfits are charging for copper/silver/alloy wire. So I'm guessing that marketing probably accounts for quite a chunk - and that's something I do my damndest to avoid paying for.

In any event, if it sounds good to you, buy it and use it. If it doesn't, please don't sell it to me!

chas
Help me understand why HighEnd Amp companies do not include a super duper power cord specifically designed for their amp and that adds just $500 to the overall cost. Seems to me that Amp and Speaker makers would get in on this high profit opportunity if it had any value to the customer at all.... and maybe even if it didn't. If I made a $100k pair of speakers, I would also make sure I sold or included the best cables possible to make sure my customers could hear the way they should sound (or at least the way I thought they should sound).

Bowhunter: Some High End amp manufacturers do! My Classe CA 300 came with a high-end "super-duper" power cord and I understand that NAD recommends the use of their power cord. Some "High End Amp" manufacturers such as Krell have even produced, marketed and sold speaker cable. Apogee also recommended cables for their speakers. However, I think speaker cables, like interconnects tend to be system dependant. People tend to purchase cables to fine tune their audio rig. People are looking for synergy in their audio system. They should choose the cable and get the kind of sound that makes them happy. Moreover, the competition is tough in the consumer electronics business. It's very difficult to make a killing. Adjusting your pricing to add an expensive power cord could cost you some business . I think most manufacturers play things pretty close to the vest to maximize profits while remaining competitive. Regards; -Jerie
Thank-you Jerie, and might I add that the products I've owned with separate power supplies all have had very different umbilical cord designs. Some extremely stuff and well insulated and others tightly wrapped. Every one has discussion in there manuals about these umbilical cords and there specific design criteria. (more of the great conspiracy I guess) Why don't manufacturers use high end cords out of the factory? Some do. Why don't all manufacturers us the best capacitors, transformers, etc. and why do some offer upgraded power supplies? I think the answer is a far away as the auto industry. Why don't all high performance sports cars come out with Shelby specs. or what ever. The after market in auto is huge! Does that make it snake oil too? (Oh by the way, Kennedy is not living on an island with Jim Morrison, that was just a theory)
Jadem6, I do not agree with "Why don't all high performance sports cars come out with Shelby specs. or what ever. The after market in auto is huge! Does that make it snake oil too?"
If you buy a Porsche or "hi end" auto (not mass market Ford) then the tires ARE specific to that car and HIGHLY recommended for the handling of the auto. Porsche and others do not sell you a very expensive car and then provide it with $50 tires... it KILLS the whole intent of the purchase (handling) and the car would not be worth it. If you went to a Porsche dealer and he said "if you buy this car for $100k and then Tweek it with new $1k tires, it will NOW handle the way it was meant to...I would call that snake oil! Are you telling me that in Hifi, I can expect to purchase a $20k amp that doesn't sound very good UNTIL I add a new Superduper power cable. So again, I ask why don't all "Hi Fi" companies provide a power cable that takes full advantage of there product....or maybe they already do!