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Best Volume Settings?

I have read various past threads concerning volume settings to achieve the best performance. In the latest issue of Stereophile, reviewer Jim Austin addresses this topic in the review of the Benchmark DAC3. He stated " most systems achieve their best noise performance in the top half of their volume range". Additionally he also stated " with the DAC3 set to its highest output level - the default setting - it was too hot in my system".

Interesting concept, so I decided to experiment with the volume controls with both my Hegel HD25 DAC and Primaluna Dialogue Premium Integrated Amp. As with the Benchmark, the default level setting for Hegel was its highest setting at 100. As a comparison, I reduced the Hegel's output level to 80 and using a db meter I then adjusted the PL to match the volumes as best as I could. As a baseline, I tried to achieve the average output volume of around 85dB which wasn't easy based on the dynamics of various recordings. With the Hegel set to 100, the PL volume control was approximately between 10 o'clock and 11 o'clock. With Hegel set to 80, the PL volume control was between 12 o'clock and 1 o'clock depending on the recording. All the recordings included voices which I always use as a guide to determine the best sound. The recordings included early rock music and female singers from various genre. In order to do a true comparison, I switched the order of the output levels with each recording since our minds can play tricks on which sounds better.

So here are my results. Overall the system sounded best with the Hegel set to 80. At the setting of 100, it sometimes sounded a bit smeared or glaring. With some recordings it wasn't so easy to distinguish any differences. So is it the Hegel set at the max level or the PL set at the top half of the volume range or both? Either way the Hegel will no longer be set to the max.

I appreciate if anyone has had similar results with both the input and output levels.



128x128ronrags
gdhal's avatar
gdhal
1,641 posts
 
@kalali 

Good point, You are correct. My previous statement "All amps distort the more their volume is raised" is not entirely accurate, but the spirit of what I meant is that lowest distortion occurs when the volume is lowest.

This is a pretty good article (IMO) that, among other things, dives rather deep into distortion, the various types of distortion, causes and so on. 
http://www.rocketroberts.com/techart/amp.htm
ronrags's avatar
ronrags OP
182 posts
 
Thanks for your various points of view so there is no correct answer depending upon the source and pre/amp design and specs. It was interesting and educational performing this experiment and is food for thought for anyone interested experimenting themselves.
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
4,966 posts
 
Thanks for your various points of view so there is no correct answer depending upon the source and pre/amp design and specs. It was interesting and educational performing this experiment and is food for thought for anyone interested experimenting themselves.
This is thinking the wrong way, you should be utilising all of what the source has as this will give you the quietest noise figure, and then have less or no gain in the gain stage section after volume control in the the preamp.

Quote from Nelson pass:

"We’ve got lots of gain in our electronics. More gain than some of us need or want. At least 10 db more.

Think of it this way: If you are running your volume control down around 9 o’clock, you are actually throwing away signal level so that a subsequent gain stage can make it back up.

Routinely DIYers opt to make themselves a “passive preamp” - just an input selector and a volume control.

What could be better? Hardly any noise or distortion added by these simple passive parts. No feedback, no worrying about what type of capacitors – just musical perfection.

And yet there are guys out there who don’t care for the result. “It sucks the life out of the music”, is a commonly heard refrain (really - I’m being serious here!). Maybe they are reacting psychologically to the need to turn the volume control up compared to an active preamp"


Cheers George.

georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
4,966 posts
 
Sorry, wrong posters quote above it should have been this one.
There are many preamps that provide too much gain when paired with the higher voltage outputs of many digital sources. The ability to reduce the output from these sources allows for less attenuation within the preamp.

Cheers George
blindjim
2,837 posts
 

Rather than saying there is ‘no correct answer’, one should likely say, ‘there are several correct answers, just not a one size fits all answer, for every scenario.

Gain is the item to be corralled or administrated. Too much at each intersection, source > pre. Pre > ap. Adds up. Ends up too now and then, not necessarily being the optimum solution.

As was said previously, that source makers suggest strongly that the volume on a DAC should be at or above 75% to avoid drop outs, from that point is where one needs to find their system synergy or sweet spot in overall system gain.

Bel Canto said something quite similar to me on the BC DAC 3 I own. I was told keep the revs up to 100% when its being used as a line source wherein another controller is adjusting the volume.

I forget what was said in the scenario wherein the BC D3 is being used as a preamp driving the amp directly..

It would seem one solution alone is not correct either. Though two, actually do appear to be able to accommodate more particular situations.

I followed orders keeping the vol up to 100% for the first two weeks during playback as a line source connected to a preamp. I got edgy about so doing and finally gave in lowering the overall steady state output voltage a tad to 95%. Emphasis on leading edges came more into line, yet articulation and resolution did not suffer further. So it remains at 95% whenever I fire it up to play from the HDD library or stream online whatever thru it. It does not remain on constantly.

I can see too, if someone is running lengthy legs of ICs voltage could drop significantly and cause distortions or drop outs of info depending on the source output voltage. As.. higher gained output voltages could with stand longer RCA IC runs.

I get the impression with todays' DAC which double as preamps or have volume controls volume attenuation takes place in the analog domain, not in the digital domain where it is more critical.
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