Burned out hi fi salesman

Bigjoe
Counld'nt have said it any better. Kevin

the hi end business has become as much about 'sight' and 'touch' as 'sound'. and there is the 'cool' factor of source. we try to say its not, but it is. its true with every component in the chain. a smart retailer will always put the comfy chairs in the expensive room. piano and female voice-cd..........guitar and male voice-lp.....no beatles, no stones.....

Big Joe,

"i have a dealer near me who i like very much & after ive made my mind up on what i want i give him first dib's on making a sale,i tell him what i can get it for & ask for his price,if his price is close enough for me i buy it & if not im out the door with no hard feeling's."

If you never hear the product how do you know what you want? And once the sometimes extensive process of informing you on what you need, the store is then rewarded by you shopping around to dealers who have done zero to help you except take a phone call and lower the price. Then tomorrow lower the quality of help and selection available to you. Brilliant

Where I have my business I love it because despite my devils advocate position here I am very helpful and thrive because all the other dealers in my area are as those who are generally grumbling about the stores say. But they weren't always that way. Since the home theater purchaser spends more and is an easier sale and allows for reasonable margins dealers are catering directly to them. Hopefully your getting the economic picture of audiophiles viability.

"you said audiophile's should stop worring about saving money & reward good service & stop being selfish all the time,what a stupid & self serving thing to say"

Bigjoe, I don't rely on high end audio clients to survive or even prosper, that would be stupid. I'm telling you what I know from the inside out. I've worked many places where audiophiles are no longer welcomed and as policy actively discouraged to "hang out". For some of the reasons listed in my two posts above.

Finally HenryHK,

Audiophiles do not recognize the incredible effort it takes to appease them, that's why in-Home dealers are desirable by most because they have limited product setup in a stabile environment. Demoing for an audiophile with a good system in a store setting is very, very difficult.

You do not seem to recognize the incredibly limited market represented by audiophiles and lets not forget that if the street was working in balance the hifi store would be a great source of free entertainment. But for the most part that two way street is in disarray and not by any one individuals action or attitude but more out of neccessity and economics.

In closing;

The diversity represented here in system sound=

more manufacturers---lower volume----higher prices----more retail outlets with less volume----lower margins----lower quality of personnel----lowered experience and services.

Everyone is losing.

I'd love to know what percentage of Audiogon forum posters have actually bought anything from a brick and mortar audio dealer since they've joined Audiogon. My guess is the numbers are very low. Is this because of the higher prices? That's one reason, but I'd wager it's because most Audiogoners either don't need advice and service or don't want it. One of the main purposes of Audiogon is to provide a way for us to support and educate each other rather than rely on retailers or reviewers; that's certainly why I'm here. I'm still in my audio infancy (maybe a toddler by now) and the advice and insight I've gained here has been invaluable. I can get tens or hundreds of opinions on something whereas if I go to a retail store I'll get one. It will likely be a well thought out and valid opinion, but still only one opinion.

Cinematic_systems is right that no brick and mortar store could stay in business just selling to audiophiles. They have no value to add to our market other than providing a listening room, and most of us realize you can only truly audition at home in your own room with the rest of your own equipment. The other things they provide most Audiogoners don't need. Opinions? We get an abundance here. Prices? New gear cheaper via Internet retailers; used gear WAY cheaper here or on eBay. Service? Most Audiogoners do all their own setup and tweaking; they wouldn't have it any other way.

Are brick and mortar retailers being squeezed out? Of course they are, just like corner hardware stores are losing out to Home Depot; the entire consumer marketplace is changing. Cinematic_systems and other retailers like him will do what they have to do to survive; if that means concentrating on the "Home Theater" buyer, you can't blame them. If that means they can't offer service to the audiophile crowd, I can live with that. I'm perfectly happy here, learning a lot, chuckling at the impassioned debates, forming my own opinions, buying used gear at great prices, and having a blast both putting together my system and listening to the increasing better music it provides.

It's a shame that there aren't more places like Salon 1 Audio-out of business.I hooked up with Bruce Jacobs/S1A in 1984,through a friends' referral.They stocked almost 500 different brands,and were available for home auditions.Generally,Bruce and his top sales person could give you a good handle on what a unit would sound like.After auditioning several units and relating the experience,they could guide you to a pieve that was a near-ideal match.That is how I learned about audio gear,and why I went to work for S1A.As much work as it was( even with the presence of a few tire-kickers),at the end of the day it made me happy to know that I had helped others derive a little pleasure from this hobby.
I suppose it's a big wide wonderful world,there's room for everybody-just don't let the sour-pusses cloud it up for you.Happy holidays-and listening.Tom