almarg
7,421 posts 08-18-2017 6:10pmQuoted from AA:On the other hand, though, if the signal and return wires are run in opposite directions (relative to what came off of the spool), then if the cable is constructed in a symmetrical manner (i.e., both conductors identical, and not having a shield grounded at just one end), then reversing the direction of the cable should make no difference **even if** the conductors are intrinsically directional. Unless, that is, the dielectric (as opposed to the conductors) somehow causes a difference.
If you run the signal and return wires in the same direction you will end up with hot spots in the stage, normally at or close to the speakers, low image height and have a gaping hole in the middle of the stage...Keep in mind I am referring to the sound of the stage (reflections) not the individual instruments spread across the stage....Interconnects or speaker wires that have pianos wandering all over the stage normally have their signal and return going in the same direction....
If the two conductors in a symmetrically designed cable are run in opposite directions (relative to what came off of the spool), then no matter which way the cable is connected the two conductors will **both** always be in the allegedly "correct" direction for half of each cycle, and the allegedly "incorrect" direction for the other half of each cycle. That follows from what I said in an earlier post in this thread:Almarg 8-14-2017(To add context, I had put quotation marks around "the current" to distinguish it from the electromagnetic energy of "the signal," that being conducted via the dielectric).
When "the current" is traveling away from the component in one of the two conductors it is traveling toward the component in the other of the two conductors.
And it is **always** traveling through the input circuit of the component in one direction or the other, aside from the brief instant during each cycle at which the applied voltage crosses zero, and the direction changes.
So the AA member’s statement seems to me to be self-contradictory. He’s saying that wires are directional, but putting the two wires in directions that would allow the cable to exhibit their alleged directionality will produce bad results.
Best regards,
-- Al
Al,
I tend to agree with you on this statement,
On the other hand, though, if the signal and return wires are run in opposite directions (relative to what came off of the spool), then if the cable is constructed in a symmetrical manner (i.e., both conductors identical, and not having a shield grounded at just one end), then reversing the direction of the cable should make no difference **even if** the conductors are intrinsically directional. Unless, that is, the dielectric (as opposed to the conductors) somehow causes a difference.Rereading Bob’s post he says solid core wire is extremely directional. He is speaking of the wire itself. His comments in his post are about running the direction of the hot/signal and ground/return in opposite directions, as you well noted. Bob really doesn’t say, I don’t believe, the final product build of the two wires, interconnect, is directional though. In fact the thread is about the construction/building of the interconnect and running the two conductors in opposite directions.
Al, did you read this post of Bob’s.
Re: maybe rcrump... I don’t know, but... rcrump 08:15:38 10/01/00 (0)Thoughts?
In Reply to: Re: maybe rcrump... I don’t know, but... posted by surround on September 30, 2000 at 20:41:31:
Glad I could help! I think once that there are definitive FM measurements available on wire that this swapping ends will become clear, but in the meantime building wire is an artform once you get beyond the simple measurements such as inductance, capacitance and resistance....Jon Risch posted a bibliography recently and I noticed that some folks are doing some FM measurements trying to get a handle on some of the effects that are easily heard in a good system....My partner, John Curl, has a wonderful bench and can measure down to one part in a million as respects AM measurements, but it is obvious that we are measuring the wrong things as respects wire. These are exciting times and the music will be better served once we can measure these effects that are so easily heard.....In the meantime enjoy your project and note that some of the cost of the commercial interconnects went into a lot of time spent listening to different permutations...
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SOooo back to square one, other than cables using a shield that is connected to one end how come some cables are directional? I for one have heard it for myself. I have a few pairs of old Audiquest solid core silver Diamond X2 SE and solid core silver Lapis X2 SE ICs and years ago I could hear a slight difference when they were flipped end for end.
A few years ago I borrowed a pair of Clear Day solid core silver SE ICs which are also sold as being directional. And yes through experimenting with them they are indeed directional. At least on my audio system. I should mention my son could also hear the difference with the Audioquest cables as well as the Clear Day cables.
And then there are the digital cables which you and I have discussed before. And I agree with your reasoning why they are, can be, directional. The fact still remains, they are, can be, directional. And as I still say today, flip them digital cables with RCA ends end to end to hear what sounds best. One way will sound slightly better than the other.
Cheers,
Jim