How close to the real thing?


Recently a friend of mine heard a Chopin concert in a Baptist church. I had told him that I had gone out to RMAF this year and heard some of the latest gear. His comment was that he thinks the best audio systems are only about 5% close to the real thing, especially the sound of a piano, though he admitted he hasn't heard the best of the latest equipment.

That got me thinking as I have been going to the BSO a lot this fall and comparing the sound of my system to live orchestral music. It's hard to put a hard percentage on this kind of thing, but I think the best systems capture a lot more than just 5% of the sound of live music.

What do you think? Are we making progress and how close are we?
peterayer
Well, Phaelon, sounding "real" does happen for me, but not all that often, and, at least for me, only on solo recordings, and it takes just the right recording.

BTW, IMO people that buy audio equipment aren't heroes, people that engineer them are.

I think polar frequency response may have something to do with sounding "live". I've heard the Soundlab A1 sound live on a violin, the Soundlabs are of course dipoles, and occasionally my Revel Salon 2 sounds live (though not on violin, so far). The odd thing I've noticed, accidentally, about the Salon 2, is that even when you're sitting near one speaker you still perceive the stereo image *between the speakers*. This means that the Revel has some very interesting polar response characteristics, which might explain why they occasionally sound live, and my old Legacy Focus never sounded live to me. The Legacys had one of the most discernible "sweet spots" I've ever experienced. Great polar response might also explain why cymbals sound so realistic with the Revels, while their frequency response is certainly no better than other speakers I've heard.

The Legacys could fool some people on piano recordings though. Not me, but over the 13 years I owned them several people thought solo piano sounded live from another room.

It just seems more than a coincidence that the speakers I've heard "OMG live" sound from (Soundlab, Martin Logan Monolith, Linkwitz Orion, Revel Salon 2) all have different polar response characteristics than typical audiophile speakers.
Irv,
You can add MBL's to the 'live' category. Set up properly, a tough one, most shows don't allow for proper set ups for anyone, and a system as complex as the MBL's take time and space. BUT, when set up properly they're magic.

On the Sound Labs, I LOVE them--and you're 100 percent correct about their tonal/spatial characteristics...just right for my taste--an amazing product.
Irving M Fried, of IMF and Fried fame, used to show omnipolar frequency response of speakers--and did so more than 30 years ago. It was a.) ahead of its time b.) ambitious c.) evo/revolutionary thinking.
No body else (correct me here if I'm wrong {usually am}) does this any more. Why? Because the results are terrible.
Just as Jim Thiel showed Step Response Information, which displays the 'capture' of the drivers releasing the energy into the room as a unit body, either 'in phase' or not, with time function, lead lag information--strangely, almost NO ONE does this. Why, because their responses look really, really bad.
The now 21 year old design, the CS5's had a virtually perfect step response.
It would be interesting to see the Sound Lab Step Response,
because of it's design, it would almost have to be perfection too. Scientific (not evidence, because the ear is the final arbiter there) validation that what we're hearing is as it should be.

Great post.

Larry
"BTW, IMO people that buy audio equipment aren't heroes, people that engineer them are."

Well said Irvrobinson, but that only serves to prove my point. True heroes are self-effacing. Bravo!
When I was in a band (quite awhile back), I had the use of a studio reel to reel (can't remember which make) that I loaned to record my own piano in my house. The replay through my speakers (Impulse H1 horns) was close to the real thing on playback ( through the said speakers).
So 5% is way of (IMHO) to my own personal experience.
I would say IMO that we are up to 90%+, and if ones hi-fi can differentiate between different makes of Instruments, ie a Strat from a Gibson, a Steinway (the baby)from a Bosendorfer (the daddy) then that % maybe even higher.
Again, 5%? one may need to upgrade ones gear.
I wish that I could understand by what measure you guys are able to quantify realness. Is it information? IMO, realness is more than that. A high resolution photograph can yield all the empirical information of a direct viewing, but it's not the same, is it? We can go back and forth between the photo and the object and never be able articulate anything lacking in the photo. But still, it's less to me. I'm not saying that I've never been momentarily fooled by a sound coming from a speaker, especially when it comes from outside the plane, but to me, that's not nearly enough to make a case for realness. I suspect a system will alway's be limited, if only by the differences in the way that instruments and a speakers excite a room response.