2. amps-preamps
  3. 1399374353

HYPEX,PASCAL OR ABLETEC

Knowing about the many apparently very good class D amps on the market right now and even though I'm very satisfied with my current ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp, I'm seriously considering purchasing one of these amps to try out in my system. My thinking is that, if I do like the amp in my system, I can just use my current amp to replace an older Adcom GFA-545 that currently powers my Magnepan CC3 center channel and my unamplified (passive)sub for ht purposes. I would then always be able to choose which amp I used for my 2 ch music and which amp I used for ht(cc and sub).

Well, I should get to my point:

I'm using an Oppo105 as the master source in my streamlined A/V living room system used 40% for 2-ch music and 60% for ht. For 2-ch listening, I stream my cd collection and hi-res Flac files from a Synology NAS in another room to the Oppo. The Oppo acts as a stand alone dac and sends the analog output via xlr cables to my class D amp (440 w/ch@4ohms) which powers my Magnepan 2.7qr speakers. For ht, I use the Oppo for decoding surround sound from Netflix, Directv and bluray discs. Two class A/B amps power the Oppo's ht audio outputs to my Magnepan CC3 center channel, LFE sub and in-ceiling rear surround channels.
I've narrowed my new amp choices down to the following four listed below. I'm requesting feedback on any or all of these 4 amp options, especially from anyone who has used 1 or more in their system. My budget is $2,000 to $2,500 and my room is 18ft x 13ft with 8ft ceilings. Here are my options:

Option#1 Hypex Ncore nc400 based amp builds from James Romeyn in Utah. A stereo, dual-mono build is $1,500 total and is rated at 400 watts @ 4 ohms. It includes 2 Hypex nc400 power modules both powered by 1 nc12000 smps mounted in a generic case with a black or silver aluminum faceplate with both se and xlr inputs. A pair of mono-blocks built runs a bit under $2,000/pr. total and consists of a nc400 power module mated to a nc600 smps in each 'NCORE' labeled black case with both se and xlr inputs.

Option#2 Pascal amp build from Aluminati Sound in Ohio. This is a stereo build only that will use a new stereo board from Pascal in Denmark, called the SPRO-2, that has a smps incorporated on the board. Power output is rated at 500 watts/ch @ 4 ohms. Forecasted price is about $2,000 but may run a bit higher. Pascal modules are used in the new JRRG Continuum 2 integrated amp that has received very positive sq reviews. Alumnati is owned by 2 former CNC machinists/fabricators. Their main advantage is their case work. One of the Aluminati owners, Matt Kraemer, told me the new stereo Pascal amp is tentatively named the "X-1" and should be available for order by approx. mid July. He said the stereo case will be milled from a single large aluminum block. The finished case will have an anodized finish (think JRRG cases but milled as 1 solid piece instead of multiple anodized face panels attached to a chassis underneath. The aluminum case will have a blue power/status light mounted underneath projecting downward.

Option#3- Abletec amp modules in the DSonic M3-600M mono-blocks. I'm not certain which Abletec modules are used in these amps but the price is $1,950/pr. and power output is 600 watts/ch @ 4 ohms in black cases with a blue power/status light with both se and xlr inputs. The Abletec modules have built-in smps just like the Pascal modules. According to DSonic's owner, Dennis Deacon, the 600Ms and their top-of-the-line 1500Ms have similar sound characteristics, even though the 1500Ms use Pascal modules(likely either a MPro or XPro module).

Option#4- Identical ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp to replace my older class A/B amp that powers my center ch and sub. This option is least attractive to me since it would mean my music amplification would remain the same and I wouldn't be auditioning any of the newer class D amp modules. If I liked option 1,2 or 3 above better for music playback, I would simply move my existing CDA music amp over to center and sub duties anyways. The only benefit of option #4 is that it's the least expensive at $630.

I've ruled out some amps, like the Wyred4Sound and Red Dragon offerings, because they use the older Ice ucd power modules typically considered sonically inferior to the newer Hypex Ncore, Pascal and Abletec power modules. Any comments comparing the sq of these options is greatly appreciated, especially if you've owned or listened to some of these. I do understand that there is more involved with how various class D amps sound than just the power modules utilized, such as high quality components and custom input stages.

I should also say, just like Audiozen, I have never actually heard a Hypex, Pascal or Abletec powered amp. I'm just curious and base my optimism on the positive reports from owners, listeners and professional reviewers. If I had a larger $10k plus budget, I'd likely just buy a completed amp based on the Hypex Ncore nc1200 power modules, such as Merrill, upcoming Mola-Mola or Acoustic Imagery.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts, comments and suggestions. Please feel free to suggest other reasonably priced class D amps I may have omitted.

Thank you,
Tim



Much like Audiozen, I am basing
128x128noble100
sebollo001
39 posts
 
Douglas,

I have a pair of D-Sonic M3-600M-A monoblocks, using the Anaview AMS1000-2600 power modules.

As I stated several times in this thread, I'm delighted with the sound quality of these amps.

I have not compared them directly with the Ncore 400, but with other well regarded amplifiers like the McIntosh MC601 monoblocks and Peachtree 220SE, and the D-Sonics never disappointed.

If you are going the DIY route, ProfusionPLC sells the AMS1000 modules as well as the wiring/connector kits. As the Anaview designs include the power suppply in the same PCB, assembling the box is a rather easy task.

You can find more information in the diyaudio site.

Also, depending on your power demands, you may also be interested in the smaller and cheaper AMS100, which also has very good specs. Several users have built mono amps with these modules in BTL configuration and are extremely happy.
noble100's avatar
noble100 OP
1,093 posts
 
Hi all,

     It is now July of 2016.  I just replied to another thresd from another member thinking of building his own DIY amp using the now older B&O 125ASX2 Ice amp module.  It reminded me of this thread I started back in May of 2014.  So, I just reread this thread and realized I never posted which amp I actually decided on. I thought any future readers may be interested as well.

     In early 2015, I bought a pair of D-Sonic M3-600M monoblocks using the Anaview/Abletec ALC-1000 modules which deliver 1,200 watts to each of my 4 ohm, and still sweet sounding, Magnepan 2.7 speakers.  Each amp is supported and isolated on custom Mapleshade stands with spiked cone brass footers.  A very good review of these amps on 6Moons was my final impetus.to choose them and where the isolating stands were recommended.  I paid just under $2K for the amps and about $500 for the stands which about equalled my $2.5k budget.

    These amps are excellent with my speakers and I think would be a good match for any Magnepans.  I've used some fairly good class A/B amps in the past (McCormack, Bryston and Aragon among others) and the D-Sonics outperform them all.  The bass is the best I've ever heard from my speakers both in quantity and quality.  
     
     The D-Sonics have a very low noise floor which enables the music to emerge from a seemingly inky blackness, similar to my previous stereo class D amp (ClassD Audio SDS440CS) but unlike my previous class A/B amps.

     I always paired my previous amps with a tubed VTL TL2.5 preamp to sweeten the mid-range, treble and add some dimensionality to the soundstage.  The midrange, treble and the solid and stable soundstage illusion are so good with the D-Sonics that I no longer needed the VTL/tube assistance.  I thought my beloved VTL, with NOS Mullard tubes, would always be a part of my system.  But I felt I had to acknowledge what I could clearly hear and I sold the VTL to a friend.

     The M3-600M's are also very detailed which I think helps in capturing the ambient sound cues that are critical in portraying a solid and stable soundstage.  I believe the  extremely low noise levels of these amps is a major factor in their excellent detailed presentation.  

     Another benefit I clearly notice with these amps is dynamic range.  It may be due to the large increase in wattage (440 to 1,200 watts/ch), but my system now has much improved ability to go from soft to loud on both music and ht.  This can be occasionally stunning on some content but I still really enjoy it. 

     Overall, these amps have exceeded my expectations and I highly recommend them, especially for planar speakers.  I consider them a true bargain at $1,950/pair.

      I still have not heard amps utilizing either the Hypex or Pasal modules so I'll refrain from naming them the best.  I'll just state they're the best I've heard on my sytem thus far.

     Hope this was helpful,
       Tim
  

     

     
sebollo001
39 posts
 
Hi All,

Just read these comments from Tim, and thought I may also provide an update with my experience.

I bought the D-Sonic M3-600M-A (pair) using Anaview AMS1000-2600 modules, back in October 2014.

Having heard many systems with excellent components, including very high end amplifiers, I found quite a strong performance and value in my D-Sonics. 

Micro/macro dynamics, resolution, soundstage, tonal accuracy, are all at the top of the scale. But more important, there is a fluidity, an easefulness in the presentation as a whole, I only experienced in very high end systems.

For reference, my system consists of a computer running Foobar2000 application (where I do upsampling, DSP, room correction, DSD transcoding if I want).
I currently have two DACs, a Benchmark DAC2 (Sabre 9018) and a Lindemann Musicbook:10 (AGK 4490).
As far as speakers go, I'm using Dynaudio Confidence C1 Platinum, and recently sold a pair B&W 805S.

Finally, and this can be of much interest for many, I have in house since last June a pair of Nord One Up 500 Monoblocks. These are Hypex NC500 based amplifiers assembled in UK by Colin North.

The Nord amps can be ordered with the Hypex OEM input buffer, or with Nord custom buffer, which allows "op-amp rolling".

To make a good comparison, I ordered the Hypex OEM input buffer, as well as the customized Nord Buffer, with SI 994 and Sparkos discrete op amps. This way, I have three different options in the same amplifier.

I can provide more detail, but in summary, both Anaview AMS and Hypex Ncore are, subjectively speaking (no measurements done here), at the top of the current class D chain.

My current order of preference depends on the DAC, but in general terms would be:

1st: Hypex NC500 with SI 994 op amps and Nord input buffer.
2nd: Tie between Anaview AMS1000 and NC500 with Sparkos  op amps and Nord input buffer.
3rd: Hypex NC500 with OEM input buffer.

Clearly, the choice of both the DAC and the input buffer determines the preference. The class D power modules alone are completely neutral.

I find I prefer bufferless Anaview than OEM buffer Hypex.

I like the "tonally enriched" sound of the Nord buffer option.

I think that an appropriate buffer design for the Anaview could also provide the same result as in the Hypex.

If anyone wants more detail, I'll be glad.

Cheers,
Sebastian


noble100's avatar
noble100 OP
1,093 posts
 
Hi Sebastian,

     I haven't been on Audiogon lately and just read your post.  Thank you for your very interesting and informative post.

     This thread has been active for a long time and I think it is a very good source of info for anyone contemplating the use of class D amps, whether purchased as DIY or as completed amps.  

     You stated about the D-Sonic M3-600M-A monoblocks using the Anaview AMS-1000-2600 modules: " Micro/macro dynamics, resolution, soundstage, tonal accuracy, are all at the top of the scale. But more important, there is a fluidity, an easefulness in the presentation as a whole, I only experienced in very high end systems."  I probably don't have your level of experience with high end systems, but I completely agree with your description, especially the fluidity and easefulness of the presentation.  I would only add the completely silent background noise level and the powerful dynamic range to my description of these amps.

     You obviously like your Nord One UP-500 monoblocks utilizing the NC500 modules with both the Hypex OEM and the custom Nord buffer along with a few op amp choices.  You sound like you're a bigger DIYer than I am, but I'm definitely going to research this further.  I'm especially interested in a few things:

1. Comparisons between the performance of these newer NC500 versus the  more established  NC1200 Hypex modules.

2. The cost of the Nord amps  

Thanks,
 Tim


scansp7
10 posts
 
Thanks for the write-up Sebastian.

The Magnepans are great but very sensitive to amps and room placement.  From my experience they can be bright at times, especially when not setup correctly.  I've owned a pair of 1.6qr's for over 13 years and still enjoy them.  

Although I have yet to find an amplifier that paired with them like the LSA DK Design Group VS. 1 Reference Mk II. The tube pre amp/SS amp combo brought the maggies to another level.  

I've had a few digital amps in the past, the original Nuforce (fist gen. can't recall the model) and the Tact M2150 XDM.   The Nuforce wasn't very impressive, while the Tact kept be busy with its endless room correction software.  

Lyngdorf TDAI 2200, apparently its a revamped version of my old Tact...  

The Tact was extremely detailed and completely silent, but it lacked the midrange warmth, depth and bass of the DK VS.1 integrated, you just felt "there" with the DK.  

I know the digital technology has progressed since then, Devialet made a big impact in the last years too.  Maybe the hypex might just be that leap in technology that can compete with the rich tubes and SS combo.  

A logical upgrade which I always considered was a Threshold SA/4e paired it with a tube pre amp.  Similar to  the DK VS.1 integrated.  

Although it seems the new Nord Hypex amps with the buffer and op amps could be up to the test??  Could they compete with some of the finest SS amps that Nelson Pass ever designed?

Am I grossly overrating these new digital amps or are they in fact something to strongly consider against the tube/SS combo?


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