2. analog
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I could not believe it

I was happy owner of pretty decent rig (Supratek+Clayton monoblock+AA Capitole as cdp). One pretty Sunday morning I came across garage sale, guy have 20 years old Fisher turntable for sale (cheap looking extremely dirty unused for 10+ years).
I would not normaly buy it, but for $2 what the heck. I bought it for fun. It took 30 minutes of cleaning, and I connected it to phono stage of Supratek Chenin. I had some LP's at home.
To my surprise it worked. To even bigger surprise it worked so good.
I compared Dire straits and Madonna LP’s with exactly the some albums on CD.
I could not decided which I prefer (CD or LP). I really could not!
Remember we are talking about $8700 cpd and maybe in good condition $30 worth cheesy turntable. It keeps me wonder how much better would sound decent turntable ?
Classical music from Deccca, Deutsche Gramophone, Columbia Masterworks actually scared me. Resolution (there is not congestion I hear on every classic CD) smoothness really scared me. It cannot be so! I could not believe what I heard. Why for goodness sake we have ever embraced CD format, for convenience maybe, not for quality for sure?
generally sound from CD on Capitole have more body, much better bass, dynamics on some audiophile CD’s.
BMG and other normal CD are in comparison to LP’s simply unlistenable.
Classic on CD’s is especially congested and its resolution is not even close to what I heard from LP’s on cheesy Fisher turntable.
There is one but though:
a lot of surface noise especially on older LP’s.

So , analog gurus I'm rookie at the subject but believer now, please give me advice about some decent turntable which besides resolution and lack of congestion would give me even soother and even more detailed presentation, huge dynamics, wide soundstage. And would be quiet without this awful surface noise.

What Turntable would you recommend for up to $3000 used.
I read that pretty good ones are
Nottingham Space Deck w/ space arm
vpi scoutmaster with jmw-9 arm.
How does those two compare, maybe different recommendation.

PS.
I heard on CES $30.000 turntables and they have been awesome, but I have never though that actually cheap turntable could sound that good and actually stand a chance to high-end CDP and on classic beat it in spades.
sorlowski
sorlowski OP
231 posts
 
Thank you for all the responses I was not expecting more then a few.
I heard Bose and I could not believe how bad it was. When it comes to record cleaner VPI 16.5 is interesting example $500 new nearly $400 used, does it have any sense to buy it used. They do keep value.

>If Sorlowski had posted his experience over in Vinyl Asylum, there would have been a half dozen people trying to reason with him about how great digital is and how each format is sonically equal.

It would be futile, I know what I heard. Of coures it was subjective to me only. I rechecked my impression a few times. I do not like it either. Plastic cheesy Fisher should not have stand a chance with build like a tank AA Cap . Heavy maintenance or inconvenience does not bather me as long it would sound better.. I already have Supratek (my convenience I had with MA A300 is long gone).
I thought that transistors have been step forward until I went to HE2001 and the best SS setups like ML and others was for me miles away from VAC, LAMM, Manley.
When it comes to cd vs lp maybe part of the reason is in software. I have noticed that AA Cap on typical CD sound like $300 cdp only on audiophile grade CD's it shines. Maybe LP have been recorder inherently better.
Have anybody actually compared Nottingham and Scoutmaster ?
I do not know if I could use recommended by Elizabeth Ortofon OM10 or a Shure 97me, description on Fisher says to use ST-66 D stylus.
slipknot1
1,423 posts
 
Sorlowski-
You are very fortunate in that you are already ahead of the curve with the phono stage you have in your Chenin. With the variable loading and gain settings, you have a wide open market of cart choices. If you intend to keep your total budget at or under 3000.00, you might want to look around for a pre-owned VPI Scout/Scoutmaster/Dynavector combination. another possibility, but harder to find would be a pre-owned Acoustic Signature Final Tool. It seems like a lot of TT for the money. While I have no direct experience with the AS, I have used the VPI/Dynavector in my system and was very happy with it. The Shelter 501 cart mates very well with the Chenin's phono stage too. As a life-long vinyl listener, the VPI was my most recent TT until I decided to move to the "end-of-the-line" and purchase a Walker Proscenium Gold TT with the Magic Diamond cartridge. It along with the Chenin phono stage make the magic for me now.
stiltskin
499 posts
 
Hi Sorlowski, Two years ago I wouldn't have given a turntable a second glance,not even a Walker Proscenium. I still owned a turntable from the first half decent system I bought in 1983. It was the Linn Sondek. The Linn and my L.P.s were packed away in the early 1990s and forgot about. I sure did like the convenience of playing a C.D. but never bought a player until 2001.It was the 55 pound Sony 777 Super Audio player....However, there was something missing, Hmm .A year or so later I had extensive modifications done to the 777. That mod brought the performance up afew levels....Two years ago it was time to buy a complete new system built around the modded Sony . The Audio store I was in had several rooms set up for different budgets. The room I choose had Cary, V.T.L. and Atma-Sphere. Meridian G8 player and Dynaudio speakers and this little V.P.I. Scout turntable??? I thought "what is this $1500. turntable with cartridge included doing with the likes of this other equiptment" I was left alone to listen as long as I wanted. Well, the Meridian G8 c.d. player sounded very good.... After a while I became curious about this little 1500 dollar turntable. One of the c.d.s I brought with me was Harry Belafonte Live at Carnegie Hall.One of my all time favorite live recordings. The salesman poked his head in the room to see how things were going and I asked if they had a copy of Harry on vinyl,well yes they did. I sat and listened.... Now I know whats missing ....I ended up going back to the store acouple of more times to hear this little turntable again. The Scout Master just came on the market, I ordered one and sold my Sony 777 to someone that was very happy to get it.......Two years down the road I'm just starting to learn how good the phono section is in my Chenin along with my turntable and cartridge due to acoupe of inexpensive upgrades. The new V.P.I. Signature arm wired with Nordost Valhalla and a Nordost Frey interconnect going into the phono section of my pre... A profound change in performance...If Slipknot reads this ,I can picture him rolling his eyes saying OH YA. That Walker table he owns must represent vinyl at its finest. Its got to be spooky....
dgad
782 posts
 
Change the tubes on your Audio Aero Capitole. I bet that is a big part of the problem. It makes a huge difference. Vinyl should be better but not that much better. The congestion sounds like the tubes are going bad. I went through that. Oh, still get a nice table but your CDP isn't bad (not great anymore) but new tubes will go a long way.

TW Acustic has a new table arm combo for $3000 which is an incredible deal. The German press loves his bigger table. If it is 1/2 as good as the bigger unit it will be a world above many of the other more colored sounding turntables.
sorlowski OP
231 posts
 
Stiltskin,
Ander the influence of great number of positive reviewsfrom audioreview.com I have bought 2 year ago SONY 9000ES SACE player. I was very disappointed it could not much quality of my old Arcam APLHA6 I had at that time. AA Cap was step forward from Arcam 6 but that big like Sony was step backward from Arcam. By chance I bought this weekend RCA Gold Seal recording of Boston Pops, for some reason this particular LP have unbelievable resolution, something I had never heard from even Gold audiophile CD’s on my AA Cap. It s getting better and better.
I would be in seven heaven if not awful surface noise and limited dynamic. I’m sure more serious turntable like VPI or that German AS will take of that problem.
What tubes are you using in your Chenin ?
>Dgad
Change the tubes on your Audio Aero Capitole. I bet that is a big part of the problem.
How do I do that, as far as I know they are solder in to the board ?
What tubes would you recommend. Maybe would be possible to soldier sockets to AA so future tube replacement would easier ? Have anybody done that ?
I remember Supartek Chenin was pretty nice with stock tubes, but when I have replaced stock with GEC KT66 + Bendix 6106 + Sylvania 6sn7W (metal base chrome top) it become different preamp with exceptional resolution and charming mids. I might add I replaced them after reading thread abut Supartek on Audiogon.
Regards to you all.
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