2. analog
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I could not believe it

I was happy owner of pretty decent rig (Supratek+Clayton monoblock+AA Capitole as cdp). One pretty Sunday morning I came across garage sale, guy have 20 years old Fisher turntable for sale (cheap looking extremely dirty unused for 10+ years).
I would not normaly buy it, but for $2 what the heck. I bought it for fun. It took 30 minutes of cleaning, and I connected it to phono stage of Supratek Chenin. I had some LP's at home.
To my surprise it worked. To even bigger surprise it worked so good.
I compared Dire straits and Madonna LP’s with exactly the some albums on CD.
I could not decided which I prefer (CD or LP). I really could not!
Remember we are talking about $8700 cpd and maybe in good condition $30 worth cheesy turntable. It keeps me wonder how much better would sound decent turntable ?
Classical music from Deccca, Deutsche Gramophone, Columbia Masterworks actually scared me. Resolution (there is not congestion I hear on every classic CD) smoothness really scared me. It cannot be so! I could not believe what I heard. Why for goodness sake we have ever embraced CD format, for convenience maybe, not for quality for sure?
generally sound from CD on Capitole have more body, much better bass, dynamics on some audiophile CD’s.
BMG and other normal CD are in comparison to LP’s simply unlistenable.
Classic on CD’s is especially congested and its resolution is not even close to what I heard from LP’s on cheesy Fisher turntable.
There is one but though:
a lot of surface noise especially on older LP’s.

So , analog gurus I'm rookie at the subject but believer now, please give me advice about some decent turntable which besides resolution and lack of congestion would give me even soother and even more detailed presentation, huge dynamics, wide soundstage. And would be quiet without this awful surface noise.

What Turntable would you recommend for up to $3000 used.
I read that pretty good ones are
Nottingham Space Deck w/ space arm
vpi scoutmaster with jmw-9 arm.
How does those two compare, maybe different recommendation.

PS.
I heard on CES $30.000 turntables and they have been awesome, but I have never though that actually cheap turntable could sound that good and actually stand a chance to high-end CDP and on classic beat it in spades.
sorlowski
slipknot1
1,423 posts
 
Stiltskin-
keep in mind that before good fortune smiled on me re: the Walker, It Was the Scoutmaster/JMW9 Sig/Shelter 501 that had my toes a tappin'. I felt then and still do that the Scoutmaster with the JMW9 Sig tone arm is one of the best buys in high end audio. I'd still be happily using it had I not fallen in with Lloyd....
dgad
782 posts
 
Sorlowski,

I am not recommending to "roll" tubes. They simply get old & begin to loose definition & sound murky. I retubed mine (now sold) many years ago to a great positive effect. A friend changed the tubes for me. It wasn't so difficult a job.

Based on your description it sounds like your tubes are old. Vinyl is better, but the Audio Aero is not a slouch. One of the most "analogue" sounding CD players.
stiltskin
499 posts
 
Hi Sorlowski, Regarding what tubes I am using in my Chenin...Supplied stock tubes with the exception of a pair of early Telefunken PCC88 in the E88CC/6922 position.... The Sony SCD 777ES was a differant beast all together then the 9000ES. The 9000 in its day was a decent D.V.D. player....It looks like you are going to have bite the bullet and get yourself a good turntable. Did you know when you bought your Chenin, it came with an incredible good phono section. On top of this .There is an endless supply of fabulous used and re-issues of LEGENDARY must own music....Slipknot,Yes, I am just beginning to hear how good my Scoutmaster is.
pedrillo
560 posts
 
It looks like you got yourself alot of good advice, and here is some more.
I would start with an old VPI TNT, this is what I did. Then slowly upgrade each part. Right off the bat you will have an excellent system that can be improved on monumentally. Harry has been offering better motors, bearings and platters!!
I bought mine here for $1300.00 and can't be happier.
My cartridge upgrade made my system even better when I least expected it. The sumiko blackbird for $400 used was a steal.
One of the biggest upgrades was the arm, that totally blew me away at how much it improved things!!
The ear834p phono preamp is another one of those components that give you alot for the money!
In case you're intersted I have posted on this topic.
sorlowski OP
231 posts
 
Let me share one more experience with you.
During weekend I got hold of old Carver CT-17 preamp ($800 in 1990). It has phone stage so I replaced Supratek with Carver.
It got the some load 47kohm like Chenin.
1) LP playback on Supratek is much louder them CD Playback, with Carver it is opposite way Cd sounds much louder.
2) Even my wife says (she is not audiofile) that with Chenin old Fisher sound better (resolution and musical wise not dynamic wise). With Carver in line LP charm was gone, sound was pretty plain, uninvolving. CD sounded much, much better. If I head LP with Carver first I would never got interested in LP. What is interested with CD there was difference but not that big. With LP it was huge. So I not sure anymore if LP is that much better them CD or just Supratek makes it sound that much better. I invited some peoples from work they did hear alike that cheesy Fisher with Supratek sounded better them AA Cap with Supratek.
Those mp3 lovers have been shocked that LP is that good :)
Maybe AA Cap would sound much better with different preamp like LP lost his charm with Carver ?
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