I just don't get PC Audio

I recently sold my GNSC Wadia 861se because I preferred the sonic presentation from my NAS Music Vault & Modwright Transporter.

I am all about the sound, and if it didn't cut the mustard sonically, I wouldn't care how convenient it is, I wouldn't use it. It is a snap to rip CD's losslessly, and my local used record store offers 75% of your money back on used cd returns within a week of purchase. I buy, I burn, I return...and buy more. Backing up of files is not a big deal.

I was like the OP....I was not a believer. I am now.

When Ric Shultz brings out his AKM 32 bit DAC mod to the Transporter, I'll be in hog heaven.

I disagree with the poster that says a Benchmark will give me great performance.....

I've tried the Benchmark in its pre-USB form, and in its current USB form. I really wanted to like it, but I hated it both times hooked up in several different systems each time. If found the highs to be etched and grating. So I'm not surprised at all it doesn't compare to your X03.

I do believe you could get performance on par to what you are accustomed to expecting from that player via PC Audio and remain under the $7k retail tag of your player. Solutions like the Modwright Transporter, Empirical's offerings...as someone pointed out the heart of it is a damn good DAC, but I'd add that you need a reliable and accurate delivery system to that DAC. Unlike another poster I have not had much pleasure in listening through an Airport Express via the optical output (mini-toslink) to a DAC. I found that interface very poor sounding. If you like your Esoteric, APL HiFi uses an Esoteric player for the base of its NWO 2.5 and can give you an optional S/PDIF digital input so you can use the NWO DAC for output. See reviews and user comments on that modification by doing a search.

There's already plenty of good input as to the positive aspects of PC audio technology. I'd like to respond to some of your cons.

Hard drive cons:
-Just as expensive, if not more so than a dedicated CD player by the time you get the hard drive, back up storage, cables, monitor, DAC.

Um, you just bought a $7600 CD player. Hard drives are dirt cheap. Back up hard drives are dirt cheap. Digital cables to a DAC are not that expensive, even the more esoteric varieties should your tastes go there. I assume you already have a monitor if you are contributing to this forum, but I'm confident that you could get a laptop and a great DAC and everything you needed for damn fine PC playback for less than the price of your new Esoteric player. But, yes, if your expectations are on that level you will likely spend as much. You could go the NWO route and combine your player and DAC in one (as well as other players that offer digital input).

-Many units have hard drive noise that necessitates placing the unit away from the listening area.

My Mac iBook laptop is practically silent. MacMini's are also very quiet. Neither are terribly expensive. Granted, some hard drives are noisier than others. Choose a quiet one. Seems pretty simple to me.

-Need back up storage: This means you need to continually back up your collection for the day it crashes.

I said it before. Hard drives are dirt cheap. You can buy a very good, quiet, reliable 500gb drive for around $150-200 (I'd get the excellent G-Drive units), and a second or third cheap one for backups at under $100 each. With your Esoteric budget you could even get a decent RAID solution and drop in drives as you need them. Since you are computer savvy you could set it all up to backup automatically. The RAID solutions I'm aware of allow you to replace a failed drive and will automatically back up to the new drive upon inserting it into the RAID box. You can also use Mac's Time Machine to back up your library. It comes free with the Leopard OSX package. It works in the background if you keep the drives connected. No effort other than setting it up.

-Noone knows how long drives will last.

Which is one of the reasons you back-up. It really doesn't take that much effort if you have a system down.

-Need to spend the time to burn all your CDs

Yes, but once you've invested the time it is done. Adding music a CD at a time takes very little effort and time. As for the initial task; You can parcel out the time while you're doing something mindless, or hire a local teen to do it for you if you have more money than time. There are also services that will do it for you at a cost. It is a matter of putting a disc in the computer, waiting a few minutes, taking it out and putting in another. iTunes even has a setting that will automatically eject the disc once its done ripping it.

-If you use iTunes the quality of downloaded songs is not great, therefore this solution only really works if you burn CDs you have. I know there are some other higher res options, but they are not widely available yet.

Don't use iTunes downloads. If you like specific music, buy the CD and rip it yourself. This is not an argument against PC Audio - it is an argument against downloading low-rez music files.

-You need some type of monitor to view the collection adding the complexity and nuisance of mixing PCs and Audio

Afraid so. I'm not really sure how a monitor adds to the complexity and nuisance of it. I sure like having my entire library of music at my fingertips where I can actually flip through the images of the covers as if all 800+ CD's were there in my lap. I suppose it is just one more thing you have to deal with. Oh well, life just isn't fair.

-It is rapidly changing and noone knows what the outcome will be

Sounds like pretty much all technology, and life itself for that matter. Zeros and ones are zeros and ones. Resolution is going up, yes. I guess I see this is besides the point for me. The kick for me is having a convenient way to enjoy the music I love. Emphasis on enjoying the music. If the delivery method evolves I'll make a call when that happens. I'm not sure why the expectation that such things would stay the same for ever and ever. I don't think the ability to play CD's you rip now will likely be eliminated in the near future. Are you going to throw out your CD collection when the technology changes?

-If you download one song at a time you essentially throw out any experience the artist may have designed with listening to an entire album

Again, don't download. Buy the CD and rip it yourself. It takes about three minutes.

I rip/listen to new CD's while reading the morning paper online. If I like what I hear, I sync it to the muisc server. If not, I delete it and post it on Ebay. I purchase about 20 CD's a month and currently have about 2300 ripped in lossless. It took about two months to rip the first 2000.

I use a Vulcan Flipstart UMPC with a couple of 500GB 2.5" drives hanging off of it as a music server. Source is a Squeezebox2 with complete analog/digital mods and ultimate Nirvana power supply. I use the Duet remote to control it. It sounds so good that I dumped my reference SACD/CD player and haven't looked back.

It's the future, not only in how music is stored and played at home, but it's part of how music will be sold and delivered to your home. The same thing will happen with movies when bandwidth capacity increases. It's a paradigm shift. It won't be stopped any more than analog dudes with LPs stopped CDs from dominating the market (at least until now with the new downloadable services). If the audiophile doesn't want to make the plunge just yet, that's fine, but you should at least keep yourself informed of the developments so you will be knowledgeable for the time when you inevitably will make the change.

Arbuckle

RE "The point of my post is, am I the only one here who thinks hard drive systems have serious drawbacks that should prohibit an educated buyer not to jump in yet??"

One aspect of the truly intelligent or well educated is to consider alternatives in life. For me to discount or dismiss another plan or concept that is apparently alien to my own, which may yeild as good if not better results, is sheer ignorance.... and I've been quite ignorant in my life now and then, trust me on that one. I called it "being conservative" back then.... it seemed to help.

Often my plans for a system improvement just don't go according to plan. The end product is usually as good if not better than the predetermined one... so far.

Obviously here, given the entry fee to Esoteric players, and their upscale counterparts, cost isn’t really the prime consideration is it?

I don't think it is really.

RE Benchmark
I mentioned that DAC purely as a thoughtful USB option. There are numerous others so I also added the Apogee whose price point and build is commensurate with the Bench unit. The list grows readily... and routinely. Both serve as examples only to prove out one entrance fee ideal.

One has to admit at least this notion... CD players are all constantly on the move to more analog like - natural sound. CDPs however have built in constraints. The very nature of their designs possess built in obsolescence. Many are as well proprietary in their repairs or maintenance, and thus are expensive to keep running. However, if one can afford a Rolls, these last points are immaterial to them I should think. If ya can afford a $500K car... $2500 for scheduled visit to the dealership won't be a bother at all.

On the other side of the coin, computers, servers, software, and so forth are near plug and play these days but in the event of a failure have an abundant set of local and very affordable resources to remedy such occasions…. And local is always better!

Analog playback itself, unless done pretty well via system matching and so forth may not equal digital quality playback as it stands today. Analog has simply run it's course and provides merely variations on an older theme. I won’t discount it as outdated or worthless, not at all, merely it’s fast losing it’s hold as the pinnacle of audio reproduction.

Were I able to employ vinyl here I likely would... and I'd keep it around too... though that wouldn't prevent me from entering another realm of audio recreation.

I know what might, however... My Contempt prior to investigation, or perhaps, my unwillingness to change, and quite possibly my pride… or my own fears. All of these principles will perpetuate my own imprisonment to the old, rather than the new.

The keys to lock or unlock those doors are in my possession though.

If I had just laid out a ton for a CD player I might well be quite dissmissive of some alternative path to musical enjoyment, and might also need to support that ideal, by some rationalization or justification of my present path to make my previous judgement valid... and save some face in the meanwhile.

In the light of the overwhelming positive experiences being posted here and elsewhere online, for someone to not entertain the idea that another way can yield likewise results is pure folly. it's akin to the idea set that wires/cabling don't make a difference! Ever think of that? Or that power conditioners are a waste of money? Isolation is pure snake oil?

I held onto all the aforementioned ideas for some time, and it’s price was costly in both time, and money.

There are numerous paths to audio bliss... solid state, hollow state... flea powered amps... all separtes… integrated units… LCD… Plasma… projectors…. analog... digital... and now there is server oriented pure digital domain.

You are in a superior position just now, IMO. AS you can take your time entering & investigating this new lesser expensive, and non time sensitive aspect... and personally, I know of a few major makers of digital converters which have some remarkable devices due to be released in the near future at attractive price points which will further escalate the current level of performance in the DAC end of things. I'm certainly looking forward to these releases myself though the knowledge of them did not prevent me from opting for the DAC I own now. Nor does it make me want to sell my CD player egven though the reproduction level equals and surpasses it in a few ways.

At some point…regardless the concept or fashion we choose to undertake a systems construct, we have to take the plunge somewhere… sometime… with some thing. The only wrong of it at all is to NOT involve ourselves. That is the only true loss we might endure… for in that state we gain no experience, or knowledge, and we will perpetually remain locked in our own little world. This too, has been one of my own flaws, for I do not usually embrace ‘different’ very well. Stay the course… keep to what is proven, or that which I ‘think’ to be the best… and wait… and wait… and wait.

Gee whiz… it took me a few years to consent to the idea not all CD players sounded the same! Or that more money needed to be spent to gain greater results!

The analog products of just one decade ago have now been made far superior by many accounts. Amplifier technology improves if by no other means than the sum of the parts being used within it. Arguably even cable are improving.

Should I now await for still greater accomplishments to arrive before I make a choice?

Why? For at that moment… still more advances are yet to come… so let’s wait some more… and so on. Waiting is not a good idea in the end. IMO

Looking back now at my own experiences, I sure wish I had been more open to other ideas, sooner. It would have saved me much time, money, and frustration.

But the steadfast reasoning that this is too costly an event is ludicrous. The learning curve can be daunting, and initially there is an expense of time, but the rewards thereafter are great indeed.