Jazz for aficionados
Frogman, there is something different about this version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF0wolSozfM&t=253s and this "Desmond Blue" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT5zGYaUN_Q |
We stood before it and began to freeze inside from the exertion. We questioned the painting, berated it, made love to it, prayed to it: We called it mother, called it whore and slut, called it our beloved, called it Abraxas...." The album cover features the 1961 painting Annunciation by German-French painter Mati Klarwein. According to the artist, it was one of the first paintings he did after relocating to New York City. Carlos Santana reportedly noticed it in a magazine and asked that it be on the cover of the band’s upcoming album. The cover is now considered a classic of rock album covers. If you ever stare at that white dove that’s situated at the apex part of the shapely black woman’s anatomy, you will be drawn into "Abraxas"; I have the album before me, and I can tell you this album cover is a revelation; I’m not quite sure of what, it’s different every time I stare at the album cover. If you have the LP, pull it out, stare at the white dove and let your eyes wander from there. Now on to the music; since this album has consistently appeared in catalogs since it came out in 1970, that’s a testament to it’s staying power and popularity. From beginning to end, this is music that does not fit in anyone’s pigeon hole; "rock" they say, but I don’t like rock. Since it’s got to go somewhere, just leave it at rock. We begin with "Singing winds, Crying Beasts"; from the opening notes, you know this album is going to be something spectacular. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn50ipwWarg |
"The sarcasm embedded in my request"? Could you expand that? "Forevermore" means the opposite of what we're doing now; it meant let it rest until the devil starts looking for his long johns. "How can one recognize what isn’t there if one can’t recognize it when it is there? Is that anything like the sound of one hand clapping? "His tune "Giant Steps" with its complicated and very fast changing harmonies has received more analysis than just about any other jazz tune that I can think of." What did "Giant Steps" have to do with this piece of music? This is not about John Coltrane, it's about "The Olatunji Concert". Our debate began as a result of 3 minutes of extended improvisation that went past where most people wish it had stopped in the Winter of 63. "However, I think that what gives our personal likes and dislikes relevance and meaning in the larger scheme of what art is all about requires that one consider things of this nature." I have already considered it, I was asking for your consideration? This is about this piece of music; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDiKea1r7sw&t=309s |
Martyfriedman, I liked your list: Basia, Dianne Reeves, Eliane Ellis, Al Jarreau, are artists that are extensively represented in my collection. Somehow I've had a hard time finding classical music that I like, but the strangest thing is that when I'm looking at a movie, where one of the characters is listening to classical, I like it. Post some of your favorite classical along with the jazz. |
There are more than usual the number of jazz reviews in "Stereophile" this month: Chicago/London Underground, A Night Walking Through Mirrors; Gerald Clayton, Tributary Tales; Chris Pottter, The Dreamer is The Dream; Jason Rigby & Detroit-Cleveland Trio; followed by Ralph Towner, My Foolish Heart. Since I have a busy weekend, feel free to review and inform us of any of those that you choose. Enjoy the music. |
Mary_jo, "Desmond Blue" was released in 62; Paul's lush horn, and Jim Hall's guitar were quite a combination; especially after midnight, when the street traffic had quieted down, and we were just cruising with no place special to go. That was the time to listen to "Leo Chears", the DJ in the red vest who played the best jazz on radio. That was his theme song. At that time there was only one "Desmond Blue", but I think now there is another one with enhanced strings. That's what I was referring to when I mentioned the strings. |
To begin with, jazz is near the bottom of the list in regard to popularity of music genres; this thread is an example of that, it's at the bottom of the list on "audiogon". Some have given more reasons than you can shake a stick at for that fact, but the fact remains. Most of the people you named are well represented and appreciated in "Aficionados collections". The only way they could be more widely appreciated is to play Rock, Pop, or Rap; but then it wouldn't be jazz. The people you mentioned are very well known to me, and have been appreciated for most of my life. While we are introducing them to "newbies", they are well represented in our collections, as old aficionados. The fact that jazz is a very individualistic art, also means that the people who appreciate it are very individualistic as well. Out of the artists on that list of 6, "Blossom Dearie" is the only one I question. Although I have her in my collection, I wouldn't rush out and buy one of her albums; maybe there is a reason "Blossom Dearie" is under appreciated. I guess 5 out of 6 according to me, isn't too bad, but Earl Hines is the only one that I could appreciate that I haven't listened to lately; sort of "nostalgic" he is, and today is my day for nostalgia. |
Wikipedia Othello Molineaux is a jazz steelpan player who spent much of his early career backing bass guitarist Jaco Pastorius.[1] Additionally, Molineaux has worked with other musicians such as Monty Alexander, Chicago, and David Johansen.[2] I saw Othello in Chicago with Ahmad Jamal, and he stole the show; everybody was wanting to know more about him. That didn't make Ahmad too happy, but you must realize, people in Chicago had seen Ahmad many times, where Othello was brand new at that time, and he was on fire. |
Man can not live on "Hard-Bop" alone; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKZQxZjGhYQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgKMdqSUkKc |
Herbie Hancock's solo on "Cantaloupe Island" is among the best piano solos I've ever heard. The other one is Horace Silver's solo on "Senor Blues" at Newport. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8jFGFwOm7k These solos are a one time thing; they never even attempt to duplicate them. "Hard Bop" jazz musicians only have a "general" idea of what they are going to play when they perform live; Monk never played "Round Midnight" the same way twice, when that was his own composition. Someone on sax asked Monk how to play something on a set, and Monk replied, "You a jazz musician aint cha"? Meaning if you're a jazz musician, you just put the horn to your mouth and blow, the right thing is going to automatically come out. That's the difference between a "Hard Bop" jazz musician, and say a classical musician; an improvising jazz musician has to have incredible talent and feel; they are very special and unique. When "jazz" musicians get on the stage, they rely on one another; Miles said what he played depended on what was played before him. This is a beautiful live performance; all these guys are stars, but the guy on piano steals the show. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynZDm50EgBY Enjoy the music. |
Correction to my last post: a classical musician has to have incredible talent and feel as well; except there is no music written down, and no repetition with an improvising jazz musician, and that's the primary distinction. Any time a man can get on a stage and wow an audience of critical "hard bop" fans, playing extemporaneously, he has a talent beyond my comprehension. No put down of classical musicians meant. Enjoy the music. |
I have both of them Inna. Here's something I highly recommend; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx-0AS9kcgs |
Zappa was a genius; and, a very opinionated one. He was also a very serious composer and student of the music of Edgar Varese and Stravinsky. He was a very deep musician whose music has a depth, complexity and level of craft that is leagues beyond Santana's. Santana's strength is that great and instantly recognizable tone with a really strong sense of sincerity and very deep "from the heart" quality in his playing. Most guitar players would say that Zappa was an infinitely better guitar player; just as most composers would say that Zappa was infinitely more accomplished. Which one touches any given listener's heart more is, as always, subjective and dependent on what that listener is looking for in music. "He was a very deep musician whose music has a depth, complexity and level of craft that is leagues beyond Santana's." Although I was deeply offended by that statement, I didn't have time to respond, but now I've got plenty time. It really takes some gall to make a statement like that; who told him he was qualified to make such a definitive statement? I told him many times that music was "subjective" but I see it still hasn't stuck. "Santana" has been one of my favorite artists since the late 60's, and still is. I don't know how many vinyl copies of "Abraxas" I've replaced, and after all this time, it's still a hot item; I use it for a test record, and no one ever complains. It seems that people who like many different genres of music have that one in their collection; I wonder if Frogman has it in his collection? Here is the first cut on "Abraxas", you decide; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xskk5q1DL6A Enjoy the music. |
Tony Scott, music for Zen meditation, I was struck by the first few notes; it's the kind of music you listen to in solitude with no distractions, I'll have to get it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ylh0C5Wsog Enjoy the music |
Those must have been the one's with the "didgeridoos"; I like that instrument best with music other than native; but I have some didgeridoo music from as far back as when they could first record anything, it has noisy insects in the background, as you would have in the field. This is all I could find by Steve Roach. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JiwJXEp2G0 I like it. That didgeridoo music I have is from over 100 years ago, and it's about as authentic as you can get. That's when I was into primitive cultures, and reading books over 100 years old. According to those books, the "Aborigines" could communicate telepathically; that certainly beats telephone. The music we've been discussing is the kind that you have to be in a certain groove to appreciate. Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, If that's the case, why don't you compare Zappa to Ray Charles, and Milt Jackson on "Blue Funk"; they ain't got no degrees in music. My best friend's brother has a degree from Juilliard, and he teaches school; I ain't never heard him play squat, since he played enough to get into school. This is about how much music you can play, not how much music you know. To me, Zappa is just a name: "What do he play"? Enjoy the music. |
Mick Goodrick; I'm sure I have some of his records, I'll have to dig them out. Jerry Bergonzi is new to me; this is a nice sounding band, I like it, Mick is in a mellow groove, him and Jerry are making things happen; "Blow Jerry Blow!" Bob Mintzer sounds new and fresh, this jam has a hip Latin beat; but with a name like "El Caborojeno", what else could I expect. Enjoy the music. |
Frogman, the title of this thread is "Jazz For Aficionados"; where is it written that I should have "Zappa" in my collection, or heard him? I've seen the name 101 times on the music forum, but I've also seen a lot of other names on the forum that I don't have, or have not heard. When I hear them, I know why I haven't heard them, and once was enough, I don't want to hear them again. The fact that I only know the name means I'm not interested in the music if I haven't heard it. I don't read any thing in my statement that was a comment on music I haven't heard. At this minute I'm listening to "Trance Fusion"; it's for sure I wont run out and buy it. The complexity of a man's music don't do squat for me; I'm neither a musician, nor a music teacher. "Enough is enough", I can not listen another minute longer; that's enough of Zappa for the day. Enjoy the music. |
He frequently lampooned musical fads like psychedelia, rock opera and disco. Television also exerted a strong influence, as demonstrated by quotations from show themes and advertising jingles found in his later works. "Trance Fusion" sounded like a combination of psychedelia, rock opera and disco, to me; now "Wikipedia" said he "lampooned" those different genres, I don't get it. but I'm sure you can explain it to me Frogman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CtbhMMTqjc That music sounded like it was made for "Ganja smokers". Enjoy the music without the Ganja, if you can. |
Inna, on the "real side", about reels, unless you can buy an almost new one, or have an unlimited budget, this might be a good way to go, at least it's worked for me for a number of years. I have a service manual for my Technics RS 1500 US 2 track, and I've been able to repair it without sending it off; that's because it's easy to work on. My new problem is tape tension, and the manual tells what to adjust to cure it. There is no way I would buy a used deck without repair being in the same town I lived in. Things have gotten so bad in regard to repair that you can't find anybody to fix any thing like tape decks in a city as big as St. Louis, and that includes the surrounding "Burbs". When I can no longer repair this one, that's the end of the road. Good luck. |
Inna my TT is in moth balls, that's because I archived all LP's; and don't let no body kid you, that's just as good as playing the LP when you want to hear it, but first make sure all that PC stuff is kosure so that you can hear every nuance of a cartridge upgrade. It's better to go that way than straight to tape. Naturally whatever you do will sound better on playback. Just the thought of hauling this thing to be shipped makes my back ache. Good luck. |
Heavy Soul was recorded November 26, 1961; his death was in January of 63. Soul Samba was recorded in 1962, released in 1962; both albums were released in 1962, but Soul Samba was also recorded in 1962 Heavy Soul was released in mid March of 62, and I remember owning it in the Summer of 63; but I can't remember if I had Ike Quebec before the "Trane" set or not. Winter; was it before or after January, I can't remember; Winter 62 or 63, can be days apart. if it was after January it was 63. Since my mind tells time by the four seasons; Summer, Winter, Spring, and Fall; first I have to pinpoint the season the event occurred in. (that's the way my memory works, confusing, ain't it) I thought "Heavy Soul" was the last album, because the artists knew Ike had cancer, you can even hear it in the music; especially in Freddie Roach's organ, but it wasn't. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7h85fVLvG8 Enjoy the music. |
Schubert, that thing you have in your hand when using a computer is called a "Mouse". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_mouse First "left" click on "You tube". After "you tube" pops up, type in the heading what you want to hear: Ralph Vaughn-Williams "The Lark Ascending" Once you have typed in the heading what you want to hear, "left" click on that circle at the end of the you tube heading. After you have done this, you will be given options of which "Vaughn Williams" you want to hear. "Left" click on that selection, and it will begin to play. While it's playing, go to the heading, and hold the left clicker down, while moving the "mouse" across the page over the heading until it's "Blue". (both actions at the same time) hold left clicker down while moving the "mouse" across the page until it turns "Blue". Now go all the way to the top right of the page where you will click on (customize google) it's a drop down box that will have options in it, "Left" click on "copy". After you have done all that, you can "paste" it onto your response box in " Audiogon" This is done by left clicking onto the response box. When you see the line in the left corner flashing, that means you can "paste" your "you tube" entry into the response box. Now we use the "right" clicker on your mouse to do this. Click on "right" (while the line is flashing in the "response" box, and a selection box will drop down. Out of all the options you select "Paste". Once you select "Paste", like magic, your click on from "you tube" will appear in the response box, and we can all hear Ralph Vaughn-Williams "The Lark Ascending" . After you get used to doing this, you can do it in less than a minute; get busy. |
What's new? How is the world treating you? You haven't changed a bit Lovely as ever, I must admit What's new? How did that romance come through? We haven't met since then Gee, but it's nice to see you again What's new? Probably I'm boring you But seeing you is grand And you were sweet to offer your hand I understand. Adieu! Pardon my asking what's new Of course you couldn't know I haven't changed, I still love you so Most standards are a short story in and of themselves; if you've lived the city life, they're a page out of your very own diary. Picture this; while strolling past your favorite lounge, you decide to go in and have a couple. Your eyes are still adjusting to the dim light, but in the middle of the bar, you see the love of your life that you haven't seen for a year, and the song goes on from there; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ct6PJ8ZUd8 Enjoy the music. |
Schubert, I could teach a fox terrier how to do this, quit making excuses. You're telling us you have a computer different from everybody else. I'm sure you know someone else with a computer. If you are afraid to ask them for help, that makes you are "not too bright". Unless you can do this, you can not fully participate in the thread; quit writing these failure notes and keep following those instructions. It's ok to ask questions, but failure is not an option. |
Art Blakey, "Night In Tunisia" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHKyVJ5YfNU Art Blakey – drums Lee Morgan – trumpet Wayne Shorter – tenor saxophone Bobby Timmons – piano Jymie Merritt – bass Sometime I dream about these guys, I can hear them in my sleep; they will never leave us. |
Ghosthouse there are so many facets in jazz that we've been through that I don't know if we touched on them since you were included. Have we touched on "Don Cherry"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAwRxXcxSgs |
This lady is truly underrated, but she is well represented in my collection. Lorez Alexandria is a singer that I have admired since the first time I heard her; probably in 69. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWXimvRssmQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fH3own5sERU These were my favorite songs by her at that time, now I have everything I can find by her. It seems she left Chicago, and got lost in LA, but in a good way; LA fell in love with her. Since good artists can make a good living in LA without being well known nationally, they don't die in poverty; those are the endings I hate most. I hope you grow to like Lorez as much as I do. |
Frogman, music will continue, but not "Jazz". At some point we have to define jazz, and not consider any music played to be "Jazz". Let us start from the most fundamental point, and that is with the artists who create jazz; in their hearts they are "humanitarians" they care for other people. That means that "love" is more than just a word, it's a profound emotion we feel for others, and it's expressed in the music we call jazz. I don't know when one generation ends, and another begins, but I know from my point of view, I'm living in a strange generation, and this goes for much younger people that I know and love. While their love for me is true, it's because we're related, their love does not extend to the broader community; they don't have "empathy", and what I say is verified by many of the posts right here on "Audiogon". Jazz is passing away with the artists who created it, and when those who appreciate that art are dead, jazz will be dead. |
Frogman, assuming I'm 18, and decide to become a jazz musician. I could go to Juilliard School of music, and graduate with honors as being one of the best on my instrument; that would not make me a jazz musician of note for sure. The ability to start with a blank sheet of paper and create something is reserved for the very few. There are jazz musicians of note who never went to any school, but they could create; that's a special ability that few of us have. While I could excel at playing someone else's music without a doubt, the question of whether or not I could improvise on the spot, and also create "new" music would determine my rating as a jazz musician. You say I'm stuck in the past; well I've been stuck for a long time, and all these new records that get no play verify that; the records that get posted on this forum that I've only heard for the first time, that I rave about as must have records, also verify my reality as being one that's in the past. I think you have made a very good assessment and evaluation of my taste in music, it's in the past. |
