Jazz for aficionados
pjw, you asked what I thought of Ginger Baker playing jazz. Like you, I have always thought that Baker is a great drummer and I concur about the supergroup Cream; fantastic and epochal music. I have loved the group and Baker since my high school years. More about that group (Clapton) in a moment. The first of your Baker/Frisell/Haden Trio clips was posted here about two years ago by contributor ghosthouse and this is what I wrote then: **** 09-22-2016 3:33pm The Ginger Baker clip I didn’t like; sorry. Thank god for Charlie Haden! He was the rock in that trio and sounds fabulous. Baker is unquestionably more than just a great rock drummer; but, he’s no jazz drummer. He does ok, but he just doesn’t have the chops and comfort in that language to really contribute on the level of the great jazz drummers and seems to be tagging along Haden’s amazing pulse. Speaking of great jazz drummers, some of my favorite Frisell was with Paul Motian: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6jFZ3X9CFuA **** I have to say that aside from hearing that clip back then and again now (in addition to the others you posted) that those are the only times that I have heard Baker in anything other than a Rock bag. Ok, all that was for full disclosure. After listening to the other clips that you posted I have to revise my feelings a bit. My feeling about the first of the trio clips have not changed and I would repeat what I said two years ago. On slower tempos and certainly on stuff that is “swingy”, while he certainly sounds competent, to my ears Baker just doesn’t quite have the finesse and touch of a great jazz drummer who can coax a lot of different colors from the it and, as I said before, he sounds a bit like he is tagging along for Haden’s drive. I feel he redeems himself quite a bit on the up tempo tunes and is much more in his comfort zone in those. I’m tempted to say he sounds really good “for a Rock drummer”, but that wouldn’t be fair since he’s a lot more than that. He is much more in control and at home with material that requires more volume and not as light a touch, imo. Really not that surprising considering his background. Playing slower tempos is fundamentally much harder than faster, more aggressive tempos. Frisell sounds amazing, btw; incredible player. Baker is a monster drummer and he has a much wider range than the majority of players that came to jazz from the r&r side of things (I know he has played “jazz” since early in his career), but ultimately, when compared to great jazz drummers I don’t think he sounds any more convincing than Clapton sounds playing with Wynton’s band. Good, but...... For further full disclosure, I have to admit that when listening to players who are well known as rock players play jazz, I always think about the time I went to see Charlie Watts “play jazz” at “Sweet Basil” in NYC years ago. Embarrassing. He had the great British alto player Pete King with him who was almost able to save the day. Thanks for all the great clips. I just noticed that the above link is not working. Here is some favorite Paul Motian Trio. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YaY1GVeHqKw https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JaCCxBIoEZc |
"You can't teach an old dog new tricks"; I bet if an old dog really wanted to learn new tricks, he could, but most old dogs like me, just find new tricks unnecessary; especially when compared to all the old tricks. That was my introduction to the music I've been enjoying today; the music of "Sonny Stitt"; when Sonny Stitt met Charley Parker, Parker is alleged to have remarked, "Well, I'll be damned, you sound just like me", to which Stitt responded, "Well, I can't help the way I sound. It's the only way I know how to play." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgaTwCNizRc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC4P4B2kl4Q Enjoy. |
Since we have mentioned some drummers and west coast players in recent discussions, I find this album to be quite appropriate to mention... ’...this time the drum’s on me’ by Stan Levey, from 1955. https://youtu.be/NX_B-UEHDME https://youtu.be/vtTjgGE9Zxk |
Damn!! OP you OK? The last day or so has been an all out assault upon the senses, both aural and intellectual. WOW. Anyway, let's try to clean up the residual noise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaeVLd4G1Zg Cheers |
