Ken Burns' JAZZ starts Monday on PBS!

You can OSTERICHSIZE your head into the sand as much as you want to, but the facts are facts.

In condensed form they are:
Slavery produced slaves, these slaves produced the BLUES, the BLUES evolved into JAZZ. Rock and roll came from JAZZ.

No Jazz, no RHYTHM n' BLUES, no RHYTHM n' BLUES, no Presley, no Presley, rock n' roll takes another 5 or so years longer to get off of the ground. By now, some of you are scratching your heads and saying, "What, rock n' roll came from JAZZ? LOL...Sorry Charlie, it's true!

I hasten to ad, that if the predominant number of GREAT jazz players were WHITE players, the popularity of JAZZ would have been much greater then and now, and certainly receive a greater respect in the country of the people that created it. America has never given due credit to the contributions of Black Americans! Why should JAZZ be any different!?

Is it coincidence, prejudice, or acceptance that provided greater acceptance in Europe for JAZZ players at a time when popularity suffered here in America? It wasn't the economy that forced players overseas, it was prejudice.

Man, you can't tell me you don't want to be reminded of racial predjudice while watching this documentary because it makes you feel uncomfortable to be reminded about history. It's a documentary about the history of JAZZ! You can't create a documentary about JAZZ without talking about the foundation of JAZZ, and totally dismiss the prejudice and bigotry that existed at the time of the evolution of the music! It's not about feeling comfortable, it's about the TRUTH, and the TRUTH can be an very uncomfortable and painful thing sometimes! Enjoy!

I've encountered at least 2 erroneous comments regarding this series.

First, Brubeck IS represented in the series. Episode 9 in fact. Brubeck IS interviewed and provides comments about how TAKE FIVE evolved, etc.

Second, the series DOES NOT conclude with Wynton Marsalis and the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra. Wynton's involvement in this series is irrelevent to me, but a lot of people have a serious issues with him. Their problem, not his obviously.

It might be wise to watch the series, and beware of false information being spread about it. Okay, gotta go watch episode 8...yes, 8...I bought the entire DVD set. Great transfer btw, in case it interests you.

Enjoy!

I'm a little late to the party here and in "you got to show me" thread but would agree with many of the "live and let live" posts. I think, however, Coltrane, that you're engaging in some serious historic revisionism when you state above that rock was born out of jazz. It's pretty clear that both rock and jazz were originally spawned by blues (although we could engage in endless chatter about how all these various forms of music have evolved). Whether it was Ellington or Armstrong, Presley or the Stones, they all started playing variations on themes originally presented by Handy, Johnson, Dixon and Waters. Personally, I am waiting for the Blues series on PBS, but not holding my breath. Jazz may not get the respect it truly deserves, but Blues gets even less.

"I'm a little late to the party here and in "you got to show me" thread but would agree with many of the "live and let live" posts." Yes, you are late, but that doesn't matter. But that doesn't explain your comment above. You've jumped on board the identical erroneous conclusion as the people you're purportedly agreeing with. No one ever suggested, least of all me, one shouldn't listen to any particular type of music because it is inferior to another. To the contrary. What I HAVE suggested, is a person who doesn't understand a certain type of music shouldn't be so closeminded to suggest that because they fail to understand it, the music has no merit!

"Whether it was Ellington or Armstrong, Presley or the Stones, they all started playing variations on themes originally presented by Handy, Johnson, Dixon and Waters."

Hardly! Explain to me where Presley, the Stones, or even Armstong played anything remotely close to placing one scale upon another? Ellington began doing this in the 30's long before it became in vogue in jazz in the 50's, and his doing so hardly related to a variation on a theme from Handy, Johnson, or anyone else that preceeded him. These new harmonies all came about by design, not as a variation upon a theme. Additionally, this is but one example that makes jazz different than more traditional structures of song form. There are COUNTLESS others. Most of which are way beyond variations of a theme. You're chosen word (variation), has oversimplified the complex harmonies of JAZZ.

I enjoy a healty debate as much as the next person, but it's important that information be accurate.

"Personally, I am waiting for the Blues series on PBS, but not holding my breath. Jazz may not get the respect it truly deserves, but Blues gets even less."

Finally, someone echoes what I've been saying since the beginning of this thread. Bottom line. Jazz doesn't get the respect that's due it, and I hasten to add, that is probably because folks choose not to investigate it enough to understand it! Those that do, understand that there's more happening between the lines than their ears first hip them to. Those that don't, close their minds, and their ears, and therefore miss out entirely. The appreciation of jazz, like any other art form, is enhanced with some rudimentary understanding of music. Time well spent if you ask me, as the analyzation of any musical form only serves to reap greater rewards upon the listener!

"I think, however, Coltrane, that you're engaging in some serious historic revisionism when you state above that rock was born out of jazz."

Historic revisionism. That's a fancy way of saying you've been hit over the head with the truth, and it's unsettling to you. Study the technical structure of rock in the 50's, 60's, which is a basic I to V to I to V chord, with an occasional IV chord tossed in, and Voila, you have nothing more than a basis for the Blues, which you obviously are aware is the basis for a lot of jazz. Pardon my getting a bit technical, but it's difficult to even address your comment about "historic revionism" without at least providing some example of the inaccuracy of your statement.

Enjoy!
Coltrane1

Coltrane: You have now become the mind reader you recently accused Dekay of being. My agreement with the "live and let live" posts refers to people listening to what they want because they enjoy it. I happen to listen to mainly blues and some jazz (as well as other types of music) because I ENJOY it-my enjoyment of the music has nothing to do with whether I think one musical form is inferior or superior to another or how much technical knowledge I have of the particular music form. I can assure you though that I do not enjoy all forms of the blues any more than I enjoy all forms of jazz. As you've deduced, I agree with you on many points; what I disagree with most is the way you're trying to make your point. I also disagree (if I'm reading you correctly) that jazz is the "superior" music form, but, then again, I don't have your technical understanding of the music. I don't have the technical knowledge, nor do I want to, to be in a position to state that one music form is superior to another; that is not what music is about for me. Your technical ramblings, however, leave me cold, much the way a technically proficient musician without an ability to inject emotion into the music leaves me. Re-read my post, particularly where I stated we could chatter endlessly about how the various musical forms have evolved. Your "placing one scale upon another" is in fact, part of that evolution, even if you proclaim it to be what makes jazz "superior". So be it if that's your take on it. Blues is, unequivocally, the foundation upon which both jazz and rock are built; all your final paragraph says to me is that rock is built on a slightly less sophisticated foundation. That is not an inaccuracy, simply a statement of fact. Here's to the music. by Hdm on 01-15-01