LAST Record Preservative. Do you believe?

LAST definitely works. It does what they advertise by (to make a long story short) transforming the surface molecules of the lp from vinyl into Teflon. And it DOES NOT leave ANY residue on the LP. It becomes a gas almost instantly at room temp and pressure.

But as I posted in a recent thread, there are other issues which remain unresoved. Here's a copy of that post:

I still use it on lp's that I expect to play a lot, say 8 or 10 times a year. But I'm very careful with it, and only apply it while outside the house - for reasons stated below. As far as a sonic signature - I don't hear any difference that could not be attributed to an overactive imagination.

However, the effect I would worry about is your health. I don't know the EXACT formulation - but I know that LAST is basically a "Flourinated Hydrocarbon" such as PFOS or PFOA which the LAST guys originally sourced from 3M. 3M shut down production in 2002 over health liability concerns, but some other chemical manufacturers have taken over. It's contact basically turns the top few molecules of the LP surface into Teflon, which to oversimplify - is created by exposing Nylon (which includes viNYL) to a Fluorinated Hydrocarbon gas. Your new Teflon record is much slipperier and heat resistant then before, so it doesn't wear out. However:

Here's a quote from this website: www.ewg.org/reports/pfcworld/e...

"The U.S. EPA peremptorily forced one member of this family off the market in 2000: PFOS, the active ingredient used for decades in the original formulation of 3M’s popular Scotchgard stain and water repellent. Shortly thereafter, 3M also stopped manufacture of a related perfluorochemical, called PFOA, that is now under intense regulatory pressure at EPA. 3M formerly sold PFOA to DuPont, which has used PFOA for half a century in the manufacture of Teflon. (DuPont now makes the chemical itself at a new facility in North Carolina.)"

Here's a quote from the EPA:

"PFOS accumulates to a high degree in humans and animals. It has an estimated half-life of 4 years in humans. It thus appears to combine persistence, bioaccumulation, and toxicity properties to an extraordinary degree."
- May 16, 2000. Phaseout of PFOS. Charles Auer, USEPA, Director, Chemical Control Division Office of Pollution Prevention and Toxics (OPPT)

Hope I'm not depressing anyone - my knowledge of this is incomplete, so it might be nice if someone from the Last Factory would clarify the risks. But I'm worried that a full disclosure may not quite be in their interests.

LAST is not required to divulge trade secrets, but I think they are required to produce something call a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) as are all suppliers of chemicals. Does anybody have a copy of it and would they like to post it?

I did an Internet search to find a MSDS sheet for LAST preservative, but no luck so far. If I find the info, I'll make another post. In the meantime, here are two threads about LAST that may be of interest:

1. www.audioimport.nl/last/reviewsLAST/audiohorizonsFF.html

2. www.audioimport.nl/last/reviewsLAST/absolutesound.html

Hey - you guys gotta learn how to check out the U.S. Patent Office - it can provide hours of aimless enjoyment and piles of useless information. For example here's a link to Last's Record Cleaner, Stylus cleaner, and Record Preservative patents:

http://patft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.htm&r=1&p=1&f=G&l=50&d=PALL&S1=%22record+preservative%22&OS=%22record+preservative%22&RS=%22record+preservative%22

The Preservative stuff is down toward the bottom of the page. In case you can't get the link to work, here's a reprint of that area:

"Compositions for preserving records comprise about 0.05% to about 0.2% by volume perfluoropolyether having an average molecular weight of about 2,000 to about 6,000, such as Fomblin.RTM. Y25, and a perfluoroalkane carrier."

"record preservative compositions comprise a perfluoropolyether in a perfluoroalkane carrier. The perfluoropolyether is preferably a perfluoro(polyoxyethylene-polyoxymethylene) block polymer or a perfluoro(polyoxypropylene-polyoxymethylene) block polymer, having an average molecular weight of about 3,000 g/mol. Presently preferred perfluoropolyethers include Fomblin.RTM. Y25, Fomblin.RTM. Z03, and the like, preferably Fomblin.RTM. Y25/6. The carrier is generally a perfluoroalkane or mixture of perfluoroalkanes. Suitable carriers include perfluoropentane, perfluorohexane, perfluoroheptane, perfluorooctane, and the like. Presently preferred compositions contain from about 0.05% to about 0.2% Fomblin.RTM. Y25/6, about 0.25% to about 1.0% Fluorinert.RTM. FC40 (a perfluoroalkane), and the remainder perfluorohexane (PF5060, 3M Co.). The composition is prepared by dissolving the perfluoropolyether into Fluorinert.RTM. FC40, and then dissolving the mixture into the perfluorohexane. The composition is filtered through a 0.2 .mu.m filter, and is bottled in glass."

Whew - I wouldn't try mixing this stuff up at home! Looking at this, though, it is not exactly as I had been told - but this patent was from 14 years ago and my info was from about 6 years ago - and it's probably been changed again since. The ORIGINAL version appears to be more of a Teflon surface lubricant than a Vinyl Teflon-izer.

Perhaps we have a real chemist on Audiogon who could expand our understanding.

I began using LAST back in 1990, and would like to add my experience with the product to this thread. Several reports of bona fide experience providing over 30 years of time-proven evidence can safely conclude LAST does not harm to your LPs. It's a valid and understandable position to be cautious about products that can have impact on precious LPs, but I'm pleased to say this is not a snake oil product. I use a VPI RCM, and yes, an RCM is highly recommended, but LAST Preservative is NOT the same thing. Neither is a substitute for each other. An RCM cannot do what LAST Preservative does. I applied LAST to a beloved classical import that only had 1-2 plays on it, applying LAST Cleaner first, then the Preservative. Another LP was an RCA Dynagroove from 1963 that was played frequently on a Motorola tube console. Even today, these LP's exhibit a quietness different than any other LPs that have not been preserved. I have duplicates (and more in some cases) of both LPs and the appropriate metaphor that comes to mind is likened to 10 1/2 in reels running at 30ips. The sound is every bit as articulate as when first played, yet the surface area sounds like highly polished glass (frictionless). Anyone who has not experienced LAST first-hand should reserve expressing presumption to the contrary of genuine verification. It isn't fair to the product or to the people who are interested in what the reality of LAST's affects genuinely are. Though you're entitled to feel any apprehension, it isn't responsible to recommend anyone should stay away from it. Seldom do people have the benefit of time to prove the worth of a product's long term affects, especially a controversial application many are aware of but looking for feedback to help them understand what they're dealing with, so empirically proven testimony that can be shared is invaluable. No longer is the question "Do you believe?", as it isn't a matter of does it really work. It's genuine, it's pricey, but it is everything the manufacturer and reviewers have said it is; and it continues to provide unique value that will serve after most of us are long gone.

I recently ordered Disc Doctor 2-step Miracle Cleaner. My procedure is to do a pre-clean on the VPI (VPI fluid is sufficient since it's just a pre-clean) > Disc Doctor thorough clean for safe removal of any/all contaminants > LAST Preservative. Ony those LPs that are truly quiet (frequent moments of silent/quiet passages) are generally chosen. IMO, these are the ones I feel are deserving enough to fully exploit the benefits of LAST and are treated with it. For what my opinion is worth, if I had an unopened MF UHQR, I wouldn't dream of not doing exactly what I described, LAST included. For me, it would be a rediculous proposition not to. I've just purchased an unopened RCA LSP-2620 (Marty Gold Soundpower). It's the same as the 1963 version I referred to LASTing back in 1990. A friend and I are looking forward to commemorate its' opening with this procedure, accompanied by a 24/192 transfer for an archive and DVD-A/CD source. It goes without saying we'll be doing this over a couple Crown Royals :-)