listening to music in the car

MrTennis,

I drive a new car every one to three months as I work for a manufacturer and I can clearly say I have never heard ANY of our audio systems including those that are very expensive upgrades that were even close to as enjoyable as my home system. You say you have listened to thousands of systems, I have listened to hundreds of vehicles, so I think I can be called a reliable source.

Road noise alone basically means you are missing half the music, average decibel levels are around 60-75db at cruising speeds in most vehicles. You also need to factor in terrible phase errors due to placement of speakers, reflections from windows, etc. Cars also get a huge boost in the bass frequencies from the cabin gain, somewhat like having 4 subs in a small listening room really.

I have noticed in all your posts you seem to dislike any extended frequency response as you seem to equate this with brightness...all joking aside maybe you need to get your hearing checked, one possible sign of damage is sensitivity and you seem to be hyper sensitive. You also make reference to systems from the past a lot, and if this is the case you had less exposure to noise years ago as well...

hi sbrtoy. my distaste for extended high frequency has no relationship to my hearing. iwas tested about 6 months ago.

i have a preference for attenuated high frequency. i like a slope in the treble, starting at 1khz, down 1db, then 2k at 2db, then 4k at 4db, etc. it is purely personal preference, just as someone may prefer to drink cofee with 3 tea spoons of sugar, or dousing a steak with ketchup.

i realize my taste is unusual and inexplicable, but it is just idiosyncratic taste, nothing more.

when i go to a concert, i try to sit in the last row of the orchestra. highs are attenuated and sound is somewhat homogenized. i like that presentation.

Sbrtoy - You say that you have listened to hundreds of car systems - Are these stock and factory "upgrade" systems? Or are these real, custom audio installations?

No matter what the stock system (Lexus ML, VW Dynaudio, ...) or factory upgrade is, it is not evey going to be able to touch what can be done with aftermarket parts and expertise.

You call out a number of audio problems in the car, and yes these are real problems, though some have workarounds. There are fancy "time alignment" devices you can get that will help with the phasing problems, and EQ of course can be used to deal with uneven freq. responses due to cabin gain.

With that being said, of course it is an unfair comparison to compare car audio to home audio. A car will never touch a well setup home system, the laws of physics prevent it.

However, a well implemented aftermarket audio system for your car CAN be highly musical and fun to listen to, if you are able to "turn off" your audiophile tendencies for car listening. Imaging will be off, the 70db road noise kills the noise floor for Bruckner's quiet moments... but you CAN get dynamics to be pretty intense, the midrange to be rich and musical, and of course FULL RANGE ( :

Well worth it if you spend a decent amount of time in the car, but finding a professional who actually knows his stuff is very hard to do. I would wager 1 in 50 even knows what the word "tone" means, as most only know "loud" and "bass"

I agree with Goatwuss. In early thru late 90's I hade a really great sounding system in my Prelude with Pioneer Premier (Thier high end, I don't even know they still have that line) head unit with DSP /EQ and time alignment capabilities. The speakers were up front JL AUDIO 3 way ( tweeter, 5.5 inch mid, 8" mid bass)custom made enclosures including 8" woofers in the door!! Door was treated with dynamate all over. Two 10 inch Cerwin Vega accurate image Subs in sealed enclosure. Rear channels were also JL audio. Optima battery run thru two big caps ensured steady current/power to three beautiful Art series Precision Power Amplifiers. PPI A600 dedicated to subs, A400 to front two channels and A200 to rear channels. Equalization was perfect, well almost with few minor peaks and dips at driver position. I also had MB quart tweeter installed in rear view mirror to solidify highs at high speeds.
While the sound was not as good as my Home system, but you bet I wanted to go back again and again to car system. Sometimes I used to have listening sessions (battery connected to external power source) in my car in my garage.
Best part of my car system was dynamics, tonal balance and understated but solid bass UPFRONT. Imaging reached maximum possible but still not close to home system. Overall, you could say that that system rivaled my home system in many respect. Of course the whole system was built gradually as I learned more thru my home system over the years.

Goat and Nil,

I understand there are better systems than stock, however many of these create their own issues due to the inherent disadvantages of a cars interior. I have listened to some aftermarket car audio that sounded pretty good, though it is often very expensive and not a great investment as you will likely replace your vehicle every 3-4 years and it is tough to avoid modifying it in installing a nice system with the speakers in correct locations.

My mention of this is not to say you can't enjoy high quality audio in a car, I often love driving with some great music on, the windows down etc., but this is far from a audiophile experience, I just love music and sometime singing along in the car. I do not feel a car system can ever come close to the purity and beauty of a well set up home system however, and when I really want to involve myself in the music it is the only way to go for me.

Frankly with as engrossed as I can become in a piece of music at home, I would be scared to drive under the same influence. You mentioned lots of EQ's, time alignment, etc. these are all things I avoid like the plague in a home system as all but the most expensive processing available degrades the sound noticeably in my experience.

MrTennis, glad to hear your ears are in working order, and as far as your preference for a softer sound, to each their own. You are not alone in your preference as many non-audio-enthusiasts really like Bose products and they to me have absolutely no air or top end life IMHO. I have found systems with less top end also tend to lose some space and placement of sounds in the soundstage, which I value highly, so I guess my preference differs.