Neutral electronics are a farce...

Mopman wrote,

""Thanks for the psychoanalysis, Mopman. "

Mocking my moniker makes me doubt your sincerity but you are welcome anyhow. I sincerely hope it helps but I will manage my expectations there."

You catch on quick, grasshopper.  ;-)

I tend to describe a neutral set up based on hearing many different "albums". If they all sound unique, meaning if some recordings sound bass heavy, some bright, some just fine then I figure the system isn't tilting the frequency in any one direction. I would call that system neutral. However if everything sounds bright well it's obviously not neutral. 

Last_lemming, to be more objective why don't you just measure the frequency response of your system at your listening position? If you're concerned about something bass heavy or tilted frequency, that is easily measured.  It's harder if not almost impossible to measure something more subjective as sound staging, imaging, or palpability. 

"geoffkait may be one of those people who believe math and science are intuitive. Perhaps - for real math wizards - it is intuitive. But for most of us, it isn't. Even Einstein said he struggled with math.

It's probably futile to try and explain this to geoffkait, although atmasphere deserves kudos for trying."

i do not believe math and science are intuitive.  I am actually a big believer in experimentation.  An experiment is worth a thousand words. Am I an experimental physicist? Probably, although my education was theoretical physics. I'm with Einstein, I'll let others do the math.  But I know what numbers mean.

Last_lemming 02-02-2016 5:04pm
I tend to describe a neutral set up based on hearing many different "albums". If they all sound unique, meaning if some recordings sound bass heavy, some bright, some just fine then I figure the system isn’t tilting the frequency in any one direction. I would call that system neutral. However if everything sounds bright well it’s obviously not neutral.

Dracule1 02-02-2016 10:24pm
Last_lemming, to be more objective why don’t you just measure the frequency response of your system at your listening position? If you’re concerned about something bass heavy or tilted frequency, that is easily measured. It’s harder if not almost impossible to measure something more subjective as sound staging, imaging, or palpability.

Dracule1, brightness, bass heaviness, or other deviations from neutrality that may be perceived as frequency response anomalies are also not necessarily measurable in a manner that is practical or meaningful.

First, as Ralph (Atmasphere) has often pointed out, perceived brightness is often caused not by frequency response errors, but by trace amounts of certain forms of distortion. Second, a microphone and its associated instrumentation will not interpret arrival time differences between various frequencies, or multiple arrivals of the same frequencies, in the same way our hearing mechanisms do. Arrival time differences occurring as a result of both room reflections and the fact that most speakers are not time coherent.

So what may be perceived as a frequency response anomaly is not necessarily any more readily measurable than the other kinds of sonic issues you referred to.

Regarding Last_lemming’s underlying point, I of course agree, as it is consistent with what I and Wolf_Garcia said earlier in the thread, as well as with what I quoted from Bryoncunningham’s post of several years ago.

Regards,
-- Al