Couple of other kit vendors:
Opinion - Every audiophile should build at least 1 pair of speakers
I think everyone who does this, even just once, would be forever changed and become an improved music listener as well as equipment hobbyist.
Whether you build a single driver speaker like the LM-1S or the 2-way desktop LM-1 (designs are free) or any other kit from
I think you would find yourself with very different biases and understanding of how parts interact, how drivers work, and how much a good pair of speakers should cost, and most likely you would have a different opinion about what a good speaker sounds like.
Would you build world reference speakers for $50 a pair? Not likely at all, but when I see audiophiles argue over thousands of dollars in speaker cables and interconnects, I think to myself, their opinions and biases about where to spend their time and money would be forever changed if they built but a single pair of speakers.
Also, of course, building speakers is fun as hell, and a great project to introduce kids to electronics. Especially girls, we need more girls who grow up to be speaker makers, amp designers and audiophiles!
Best,
Erik
Whether you build a single driver speaker like the LM-1S or the 2-way desktop LM-1 (designs are free) or any other kit from
I think you would find yourself with very different biases and understanding of how parts interact, how drivers work, and how much a good pair of speakers should cost, and most likely you would have a different opinion about what a good speaker sounds like.
Would you build world reference speakers for $50 a pair? Not likely at all, but when I see audiophiles argue over thousands of dollars in speaker cables and interconnects, I think to myself, their opinions and biases about where to spend their time and money would be forever changed if they built but a single pair of speakers.
Also, of course, building speakers is fun as hell, and a great project to introduce kids to electronics. Especially girls, we need more girls who grow up to be speaker makers, amp designers and audiophiles!
Best,
Erik
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Erik, I couldn't agree more. I've built two sets of speakers in my nearly 50 years in this enjoyable endeavor, both of them Tannoys. My first was a 12" pair of Monitor Golds, in poorly made plywood cabinets. My current pair, which are 12" HPDs, (ca 1975, with high quality outboard crossovers, the foam surrounds being converted to "Hard Edge" as are the current Prestige line of Tannoy). I was determined to make them sound as good as humanly possible, limited only by budget and knowledge/skill on my part. Despite my shortcomings, they have turned out to sound as good, or better, than I'd hoped. I've seen some gorgeous DIY speaker builds, mine would not be seen that way, but they do sound that way. They will be passed on to my children, though I have no way to sort out which child will get them. The amount of personal satisfaction I got from this build was tremendous, and it carries on to this day, and every day. I've done as much DIY as I can muster, and it's been keenly rewarding. I wouldn't have it any other way. Regards, Dan |
I believe there has been some discussion on the Bifrost kits at DIY Audio, check out the mult-way forum there! http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/ Erik |
Had to laugh when I saw this. My sister gave my parents a Sansui 1000x, a BSR 310 / Shure and a pair of Creative 3 way acoustic suspension speakers as a Xmas gift back in the day. Little did she know that she would be responsible for starting my audio addiction. The BSR was better than the hand-me-down GE portable I'd inherited from her a few years earlier, but not much. The speakers and receiver opened me up to the magical world of FM stereo radio. After a move to Los Angeles a couple of years later, I managed to get a BIC 980 with a Grace F8 to replace the BSR. That was a real eye-opener! I'd had no idea that records could sound so much better than radio. Another year went by, my dad got a new receiver and speaker set (Concept 5.5 and JBL L36), so the Sansui and Creative speakers came to live in my room. After a while, I began to understand the speakers weren't all that great, and certainly not up to the level of the Koss Pro 4 AA headphones I'd managed to save up enough to buy. Radio Shack was a place of wonder back in those days. After prying off the stapled speaker grilles, I discovered the Creative drivers were all paper cone with dinky little voice coils & magnets. Saved up as much car wash money as I could after paying for essentials like movies, bicycle parts, skateboard wheels and so on. That allowed me to install much heftier 12" woofers, dome midranges, dome tweeters and new crossovers. They weren't the JBLs, but those modified speakers taught me that there is much more to sound than a box you pull out of a box. Most importantly, it taught me that money isn't the key component but is merely a vehicle. FWIW, I still have that old Sansui and it still has a great tuner section. |
I see audiophiles argue over thousands of dollars in speaker cables and interconnects, I think to myself, their opinions and biases about where to spend their time and money would be forever changed if they built but a single pair of speakers. I do SO agree. Ditto for building electronics, turntable, or tonearm. Even doing a really good turntable setup would be sufficient, I suspect. |
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I bought some plans for Lowther Fideleo speakers in the late 90's early 2000's & built them with my father in his garage workshop around the same time. I was working/living down South at the time so we'd work on them when I was in town. He taught me a lot about how to cut/set/glue all of those pieces inside that folded horn design. Finally bought some PM2C drivers for them around 2002. Just replaced those drivers a couple years ago with the Lowther DX version. Those speakers with an REL sub are wonderful. Still using & enjoying them today, in fact right now. |
While on the GR Research site, check out the 12" servo-feedback subwoofer drivers---one for sealed enclosures, another for OB/dipole applications, and the cabinet plans for 1- a double-walled enclosure with sand between the two walls for the 12" driver, and 2- plans for the W- and H-frames for the state-of-the-art OB/Dipole Sub that is the product of the collaboration between Danny Richie and Rythmik Audio's Brian Ding, which uses a pair of the 12" woofers that have been optimized for free-air use. |
As terry9 stated, building electronics and other DIY projects are fun and rewarding as well. To that effect, I just completed the DIY Ultrasonic Record Cleaner as per BBtx on DIY Audio. I cleaned nearly a dozen records this afternoon, and it works great. There's no doubt my records are being cleaned better than they ever have, what a feeling..... Regards, Dan |
I'm smart enough to know I'm not smart enough to build a speaker as nice as what the same money would buy. I can build an amp though, and I can do that way cheaper than I can buy a similar amp for. I can seem to build cables that are better than lamp cord for a lot less than similar cables go for. My speakers are a hell of a lot more complicated than the amp I built. |
Kosst---I can’t speak for all DIY loudspeaker kits, but in the GR Research products you are getting an advanced speaker designed by one of the best in the business. Danny Richie does outside work for non-DIY speaker companies, who pay him to design their crossovers and driver-compensation networks and filters, a particularly strong talent of his. The drivers that are included in his kits are designed by him, and are built to his specs. All you have to do is build the enclosure, or get one of appropriate internal volume from Parts Express or one of the cabinet makers who contribute to the AudioCircle GR Research Forum. Danny also offers economically-priced modification kits for built-to-a-price-point commercial loudspeakers, replacing their junk parts with audiophile-quality parts chosen for ultimate sound quality, and while he’s at it correcting the engineering "mistakes" (or bad choices/compromises) the designers of many mass-produced speakers often make. Rather than being not as good as the same amount of money spent on a ready-made speaker, the GR products perform way above their price points. That’s why they have won awards at several of the RMAF Shows, and from professional reviewers. Richie has just received the first examples of the new ribbon tweeter he has designed and is having manufactured for him---an improved version of the great NEO 3 that was discontinued several years ago. This tweeter embarrasses those found in much more expensive loudspeakers, including some of the biggest names in hi-fi. Danny is a perfectionist with very high standards, and his speaker designs reflect that fact. Okay, I’m a DR fanboy; I’m far from alone! |
Good morning, Eric...*S* And y'all... I think I blew past the 'pair' minimum awhile back. And I couldn't agree more, although one needn't go to quite the extreme that I have. It's very satisfying to listen to something that one has made with their own hands, even if it's just assembling a kit of parts. One gets a different perspective of the mechanisms, the circuits, and the enclosure that recreates the recreated illusions that we enjoy.... It IS all a dance of sub-atomic particles at the end of the day, after all.... ;) |
By the way, my favorite place to talk about DIY and kit speakers is the Multi-way forum at DIY Audio. Hope you'll join us and even become a sustaining member. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/ Best, E |
Gotta give another shout-out to Danny @ GR Research. While I've never built a set of his designs, he did help me out when I had the crossover for my vintage Pioneer HPM-200s redesigned, and listened to several of his works. He runs a pretty active forum over at http://audiocircle.com Now that he has his version of the BG Neo 3 back in production, check out his "Wedgie" design. I'm particularly keen on this implementation - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=151056.0. |
I built the amp from prefabbed PCBs, transistor kits, and various parts I obtained from at least 6 suppliers. I certainly didn’t design it, but I definitely built it outside the design specs to good effect. I vividly recall an article in Stereophile where someone built a very well laid out Focal Aria 5 kit to some dubious results. He used unfinished MDF and ended up with a bright, beaming speaker. When he consulted Focal and D’Apolito about the lousy sound and measurements, D’Apolito provided his creations, the only difference being a finish veneer, and the sound was vastly improved. That seems to me a relatively minor alteration in comparison to ramping up amp voltages from 24V to 34.5V. That kind of thing would drive me nuts trying to sort out and I don’t have a lab full of gear to measure, sort out issues, and make changes. Beyond that, I have no desire to become embroiled in the OCD discussions concerning exotic caps and wire and resistors. The amp was easy. No caps in the amp aside from the power supply. Used the quiet Vishay, Panasonic, and Ohmite resistors, soldered the stuff together, and it just sounded awesome from day 1. The finish on the case didn’t make any difference. I also live in a condo and my best friends / landlords would be less than impressed if I decided to build speakers on the brand new carpet they bought for me. |
Soundsreal....well, considering the plethora of offerings 'out there', I think we'd hardly notice an influx of 800...*L* The similarities between one's personal audio equipment choices for the spaces they listen in and the complexities of various programs on one's personal computer type and the configurations within that....making these things 'coexist' with each other, without random violent hair removal.... I'm sometimes thrilled that any and either work as well as they do at all. *G* ...and no, Eric, you can't stop...this is one of those threads that should grow a life of it's own, expanding exponentially until the AG server goes *poof*. *L* And then we can move on, like locusts, consuming terabytes in our path... And everyone's scared of AI... "All thee have to fear....is Me..." *LOL* Or us.... ) |
Having a great time and learning experience building an active tri-amped 2.2 system. 3 Crown XTi-2 power amps contain all the digital adjustment control over EQ, crossover, driver gain and delay one could conceivably ever need, no limitations with crossover design ever again. About $500 for each amp and they happen to sound terrific. Aurum Cantus 25120 tweeters (1 per channel) and 3" GR Research "LGK’s" (4 per channel) to make for a MMTMM config. This is loosely based on Danny Ritchie’s "Wedgie" design, except that, on a bit of a whim really, I’m adding horns into the equation, just to see (Flying Wedgie??). An OmniMic 2.0 rounds it out. The standmounts are about $900/pair to make and the pair of 15" Hawthorne Audio "Augies" add around another $500. The amp/speaker package is roughly $2900 retail. Pretty sweet considering that I’m no longer paying a speaker manufacturer to try to guess, or suppose, what it is that I want from a design. Now I have what I’ve been after all along: the flexibility and control it takes to dial in just exactly the kind of sound I happen to want, regardless of whatever room it all goes into or whatever source I ever end up using. I now know it would take me a whole Heap of money and a long time looking to find the next best thing in the speaker market, new or used. No going back for me. I don’t think I’ll ever buy another pair of manufactured speakers again. :) |
Doing it right now. A pair of Bill Fitzmaurice Davids with upgraded drivers and a flat pack from speakerhardware.com. Just finished the crossovers a couple of weeks ago. Total cost will be less than $1500. If not these, my second choice would probably have been Statement II (speakerdesignworks.com and meniscusaudio.com). |
I now know it would take me a whole Heap of money and a long time looking to find the next best thing in the speaker market, new or used. This brings up two major reasons to build yourself: 1 - Make exactly what you want 2 - Price performance is unmatched vs. commercial The high end brands charge around 10x the driver cost. Some much more. a few less. My main speakers would be around $12k if I tried purchasing, and they may or may not sound like what I want them to sound, exactly. |
Amen, Erik. From the looks of this thread, and the amount of people who might lament about how much speakers cost and/or how hard it is to get what they’re after, then, among existing audiophiles anyway, this may be the next wave...if it isn’t already. DIY speaker building has been around forever, but everything (increasing costs in the speaker market, less disposable income these days, the overall lack of movement in the global audio market and the wide availability online of affordable, high-quality parts, materials as well as easier, faster testing methods, etc) seems to me to be pointing in this direction more and more. Increasingly I have learned to tweak, modify and now DIY my way forward. Just accepting at face value alone the terms that manufacturers are willing to dictate to everyone has grown to be no longer an option for me. Lots of gains to be realized IMO once you decide and bother to learn how to start to buck that established trend. And yes, I said "buck". What did you think I meant? ;>) |
For vintage horn/high efficiency fans, found these sites specializing in Altec Lansing reproductions: https://vintagespeakerrevival.com/ https://greatplainsaudio.com/ Really nice looking stuff! Best, E |
@erik "I don’t expect every audiophile to build top class speakers, even if purchased as a kit. But I do wish more audiophiles would build something themselves. If even 1% of audiophiles built their own speakers, our hobby and environment would be so much better." In complete agreement here, no argument from me. Just meant to be speaking for myself that that particular door I went through remains as open as ever, really. Like you I’m convinced that even, if not especially, very modest DIY efforts price/performance-wise would have something well more to offer than any typical factory made counterpart. And that's a great learning opportunity. Great thread. |
I bought this book https://www.amazon.com/Design-Build-Complete-Speaker-Systems/dp/0830610642?SubscriptionId=AKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q&tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=xm2&camp=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=0830610642 at Radio Shack years ago (the price has gone up a bit) and built several of the smaller projects. It was great fun, and if I still had a table saw I’d probably be building speakers today. |
Assembling a speaker kit is not "building" a speaker IMO. Just like putting together an IKEA cabinet is not building furniture. Hifi kits can be fun and give you a sense of accomplishment, but they are just scratching the surface for DIY. I am really saddened by this type of attitude in an area I want to make fun and inviting for people regardless of their economic opportunity, tools or background. I think it is much more important to be welcoming and share knowledge and passion. Best, E |
Next time think twice when searching even for ... footers. First you start by modifying the cheap parts, (internal wire, caps, inductors, binding posts) Then you realize that with all these obvious compromises you should have done a much better clone instead of buying it .... You may get the virus when purchasing a vintage TT. It is so simple. It is quite impossible to resist upon a TT plinth, a PSU for TT using LT regulator boards already assembled, the Belden 1800F for internal hook-up wiring, and wait ... what if ... DIY interconnects with the rest using the KLEI Absolute Harmony? WTF? How come to overachieve my $$$ SOTA cables ? The damage done You are addicted And yet, if you have the will, the speaker is the best place to dig deep into. You can't make it from scratch. Forget it! Please choose the over the top of your short list, give your best effort and keep the expectations low. You will be surprised with the outcome. If you make it with dedication and attention to detail, you may easily sell it when you want to proceed to another project. It continues to amaze me how smoothly went the sale of 5 TT & 4 speakers that I've done. I don't know what is the motive behind these projects. Financial reasons, or just fun, or about the uniqueness of creation. Maybe it is more about self-esteem ... But then you realize, you have just make a jump to the next level and suddenly all the glitter has gone. No more trendy boutiques for you... Aqualung my friend ... You are no more with our collective elite. and you are still wondering why this board does not hosts DIY ... |
Hey Granny, I encourage you and your son to check out the Parts Express forums: http://techtalk.parts-express.com/ and their project gallery: http://projectgallery.parts-express.com/ as well as the DIYAudio multiway form here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/ |