Preamp Deal of the Century

Richmon,
thanks. Seeing them in the picture I just couldn't figure out what they were for.
Best,
frankiealverti

Supra upper mids/lower treb? Are people always working on that part? Ken Rad black glass 6SN7's? Hmmmm....Has anyone listened to how Kondo deals w/ upper mids/lower treb while still maintaining dynamics?

Not me!!!!

IMO, this is too much to ask solely from the preamp. The Supratek is not a magic tool. It is a very good preamp but needs to be mated, to maintain synergy, with good components too. The preamp is now telling you the truth about the systems shortcomings base on your preference and you have to single it out as the culprit? Not wise IMHO!

For the record, I too was dragged to "tube rolling" here regarding how much improvement you can benefit from it. In fact, I fired some of my recommendations as well while I am at it. But in all honesty, as I mentioned before trying to report about how good the preamp really is without canging anything but just waiting patiently for it to settle, the stock tubes that Mick shipped are the tubes where the preamp is calibrated. Granted that not two people are alike, it might be wise to let the thing run for a while before constantly buying and replacing the tubes to tailor the sound. So far, the only tubes that I replaced that I am succesful are the two 6C4 tubes in my Chenin.

Been there, done that, never again! FWIW, did you guys noticed long time Supratek owners in the last 3 months (myself included)un-loading here at Audiogon NOS tubes they accumulated and found out they do not need? My point is, some of us got so carried away from recommendations of such tubes and when the dust settled found ourselves in full circle journey by accident. That is, putting back all the stock tubes shipped with the unit and was shocked that the preamp sounds better with them than the costly NOS tubes.

Of course, YMMV and I am just reporting my experience.

cheers

Greetings, Supratek community!

I am not new to this thread, having come across it a couple years ago. Which planted the seed in my mind to someday get a Syrah (now, of course, the Chenin).

Well, I just picked up my Chenin from a fellow A-goner. Despite my high expectations, I'm stunned with what it reveals in the music. And obviously pleased.

My system is already pretty resolved: Nottingham Spacedeck with Anna arm and Benz Ebony H cartridge, Audio Aero Prima CDP, Belles 150A Reference amp, ICs are all Kimber Select 1021 and speaker cable is Kimber BiFocal XL. Two dedicated circuits (amp, other), Shunyata Hydra 2 (amp) and Hydra 4, and all power cords are Shunyata Taipan Helix. The weak spot in the system (or so I thought), was my speakers: Kef Reference Model Twos.

I had been using an Audible Illusions Modulus 3A MM phono preamp, tweaked with gold fuses (from The Cable Company) and upgraded Super Low Noise Yugoslavian NOS 6922s (from Roger Mojesky of RAM). The AI was damn good sounding.

System was very open, broad soundstage, good imaging on CD or vinyl (I listen to 75% vinyl). Bass was tight, but not as extended. Highs were good, but not what I've heard with a good ribbon tweeter setup (like Dali Helicon).

What motivated me to change, you say? Well, mostly a desire to experiment with lower output MC cartridges without breaking the bank on a phono stage or Hovland pre. And all the Supratek hype on this thread gave me some confidence the Chenin could perform.

So what difference did the Chenin make? A HUGE one! A level of detail and clarity that astounds. More vertical soundstage and more depth. An ability to relay the information on CD that brings it much closer in sonic quality and enjoyability to vinyl. My wife was upstairs in her office when I was running the Chenin through it's first paces. When she came down, I asked her if she could hear the difference. She said, "Yes, it sounds clearer."

In fact, so much more information is being passed through the Chenin, that I am no longer anxious to upgrade from the Kefs. That vintage (1994-96) of the Kef reference Series (especially the Two and Three) are probably the best speaker they ever made. With the Chenin, the highs (cymbals on jazz trios) are much higher and crisper, with more air. The bass is more extended. Not down into the low 20's, but FULL all the way down to the 40 hz range these speakers go. I may yet upgrade (looking at the Helicon 800's, VR-4 jrs, maybe Chapman), but there's no rush.

So with that introduction, I'd like to ask the community for some advice.

What's missing: While there's overall more sonic detail in the Chenin, the imaging is less precise and focused. A vocalistor guitar sounds like they're in a certain spot, but then the notes sort of smear out to left and right as the music modulates, rather than staying in the same focus range. Is this normal?

The soundstage width has shrunk. My speakers are 9.5 feet apart (listening position is 10' away). Soundstage used to extend 2-4 feet outside of the speakers. Now it seems to be confined between.

Tubes that came with the unit are all stock: EH 6SN7, Sovtek 5881, Philips 6J6, an 'FSCM' 6922, and Mullard rectifier 5AR4.

I have some 6922s to play with: Amperex, Matsushita, and the RAMs.

I read with interest the suggestion by ecclectique that changing the rectifier tube to a metal base GZ-34 was the single most significant tube upgrade. Then I checked the tube world website and saw it was $350+! Is it that good?

So, stiltskin, slipknot1, fiddler, ecclectique, others:

...any suggestions how to regain the precise imaging and/or wider soundstage?

Thanks in advance,

- John

John-
The imaging issues you are experiencing have not been a problem in my room. I have also not spent any serious effort tube rolling, save for the swapping of the 6SN7s for a pair of RCA grey glass VT231s which I really liked. Like you, I have been interested in doing something about the stock 5AR4 rectifier by going with a GZ34 - but not for that kind of money. I figure Mick knows what he is doing when he ships the tubes it comes with, so I have just been enjoying it.

Re: the imaging: have you experimented with speaker toe in/out since putting the Supratek in your rig? At 9.5 ft apart and 10 feet away, you may have some wiggle room there to account for the overall presentation of the soundstage as reproduced by the Supratek.

Hi, Slipknot1. Thanks much for your insights!

My speaker placement has been stable throughout all of my equipment upgrades to this point, not by neglect or stubbornness, but because there hasn't been any need to change. Leads me to think that the decreased imaging/focus has something to do with the Chenin with its stock tubes.

I will probably give a try to adjusting speaker placement if no other logical options present themselves, but from my previous experience with the sonic effects of changing tubes, it just seemed to me that tubes might be the starting point.

Make no mistake...I am totally thrilled with the dramatic improvement in sonic performance of the Supratek Chenin! Like most, I'm just hoping to 'get it all.'

Hoping for others with helpful experience to chime in!

Two other questions ('cause I'm not an electrical engineer):

1. I know the 6922 is part of the phono stage. Is that just the only one pair? Put another way, which are in the line stage?

2. Just what does the rectifier tube do to the rest of the system sonically??

Best regards, John