Preamp Deal of the Century

Amandarae, Kgturner

Where can i find the Sylvania 6F6G ? Tubeworld does not have them.

Dilly,

I have the 6F6G's (Sylvania with Green lable, smoke glass) and bought it NOS for <$45. Before acquiring the NOS pair, I purchased a "used" pair of this type from a fellow Audiogoner here. From my recollection, the 6F6G's (I can only vouch for the Sylvania's)de-throned my GEC Kt-66 clear glass and my GEC Gold Lion KT-66 as regulator tubes on my Chenin. The GEC's are very good as a regulator for the Chenin (but people swear the best is the WE 350B? I think if you can afford it). With the the 6F6G's, I found more definition on the detail I am getting from my vinyl rig (primary music source)than the GEC's. The GEC gives me a tad bigger instrument weight but I prefer the 6F6G's sound overall. Besides, a touch of VTA can correct the "weight" I am talking about in my system but not how good the detail and other parameters would be.

My recommendation is to find a used pair of the Sylvania's that test strong not the border-line stuff. Then you should be able to compare it to what current tube you have on the regulator position at the moment. Besides $45 is not really a burden of a price tag to experiment should the tubes dissapoint you.

goodluck

dilly:

from what i understand, the sylvania 6F6G (non-metal base) is the best to use if you're going to go with a 6F6. i ordered my chardonnay a while back based upon the rave and praise it was receiving in this thread. the way i see it, if i don't like it, i will have no trouble selling it here on a'gon for what i paid for it anyways. hopefully, i'll be enjoying my chardonnay shortly.

Braro - "grain" is normally something associated only with solid-state designs. Grainy is considered an escalated form of dryness. For example, Bryston gear is dry but Supratek is not. It is quite possible to get some glare with the stock tubes though.

http://stereophile.com/reference/50/index3.html

But anyway, I would highly recommend that you roll the 6sn7's. Amandarae, Ecclectique, Bwhite and too many others have made excellent recommendations on 6sn7's. You should search their notes.

Hi all,

I have been using a Chardonnay for nearly a year now. This has been the single best upgrade i have done to my system. The Chardonnay has single handedly transformed my system to a level not possible without having to spend serious money.

I am very greatful to this thread & to all the people who have contributed tremendously. THANKS EVERYONE !! Made my life a lot easier ( no more swapping pre's for a long while ) & bringing real joy along with the pride of owning something special.

Some Supratek owners have previously commented that they have compared the Supratek with pre's costing in the $15K range. My first thought was ......yes i thought it was a lot of talk. Few months back i had a friends $16K solid state dual box-design pre in my system by a reputed US manufacturer. To cut a long story short let's say that my friend was not very happy . So for the people still on the fence, take a chance. This would be a decision very hard to regret. I too was skeptical but VERY glad that i took the plunge. Thanks again Slowhand for bringing this wonderful pre to our homes & hearts & thankyou Mike for putting it within our reach without a $15K tag.

O.K. Need a bit of advise. I need to roll my regulator tubes & would like to try the 6F6 highly recommended here.
I know this has been discussed above but now i need to order some tubes for my poweramp & thought of ordering a pair of 6F6's at the same time. The order has to be made fast so does not give me a lot of time to read all the posts. So pls. bear with me.

I would appreciate if you can educate me briefly on the brands & types of 6F6's i should look at and what shade of sound i can expect from them.

Cheers & happy listening,

Hello Braro,

I too have the Chenin. If it was me, I will try the rectifier tube or the 6SN7's.

If the rectifier is noisy, the regulator will regulate the voltage just fine but will not eliminate any noise (ripple) that can pass thru. The 6SN7's on the other hand can be microphonic and will present the same problem.

just a thought

Hello everyone. I recieved my Chenin in early December and as the unit breaks in Ive been experiencing a strange effect. Over the past 2 months I have noticed a gradual increase in upper midrange glare and grain. Mostly noticeable on voices and seems more prominent on better recordings. Every other aspect of the sound is getting better as time goes on so this is a little confusing to me. I should say that right now Im just using the line stage as I have not settled on a table yet. Im wondering if the Chennin is actually becoming more revealing as it breaks in and is showcasing limitations elsewhere in my system. Any input will be much appreciated. My system consists of:
Wadia 861
Chennin
VTL MB 125 Tube amps
Vandersteen 2CE Sig
(2) Vandersteen 2WQ Subs with model 5 crossover
Cardas Goldencross
Kimber Bifocal XL speaker cable
BDR cones
Room is approx 14 x 30 with system on long wall

Ecclectique, yes I contacted Edward Wolcow of Foundation Research and now I have the Cd player, Syrah, and the Cary 805C monoblocks connected to the wall with these power cords. I can tell you that the sound is not colored or tamed like with the more then twice expensive Shunyata Anaconda VX. They are exellent power cords that keep out RF from the system in both directions. The sound, as I told in a prior post is just cleaner and the cables keep intact the personality of every part of the rig. If anyone is interested can find information at http://www.stereotimes.com/acc032703.shtm
or just in Google looking for Foundation Research power cord.
Thanks for let me know about these cables and yes, they are in my experience the best ones I´ve tried ever in my system.

On the topic of a.c. cords and power conditioners,I recently purchased a Nordost Thor power conditioner and and afew Nordost vishnu a.c. cords.The Nordost stuff was the most expensive of other manufactures that I thought worthy checking out.Nordost was the last of the few I borrowed for in home trials this last fall and during Christmas.I had two brands picked out that I liked in my set up and was planning borrowing them again after the Nordost trial.Most power conditioners and aftermarket a.c. cords all do something good for the equiptment there used in I would think. For me they all worked at lowering the noise floor enabling alittle more realistic flow and snap to music ,very nice indeed.The Nordost stuff was more then I really wanted to spend.A dealer I know was very insistent on me waiting to try the Thor before making a decision.The Thor has Valhalla wire through out and with that stuff I think Nordost understands something about electricity that other manufactures of condtioners and a.c. cords do not....I can tell you this ,you have not heard all of what your system can do, I dont care how long you have had it.Roy Gregory of HI-FI Plus reveiwed the Nordost Thor in issue 35, I am sure you will hear more about this stuff...It is a profound enhancement in my system recipe.

Jpms... So you went with the Foundation Research cords. The LC's have been an integral part of my rig for over 5 years and I could not live without them. When I remove an LC cord in my rig to try anything else it becomes an immediately step backwards.

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Ray,
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Great decision to get the Chardonnay - one I that I think you will feel great about as you look back.
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Do be prepared for a wait, but one that is well worthwhile.
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Down the road, your next move should be that Teres you were thinking about getting over a year ago.
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Let us know when you receive the Pre.
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Rgds,
Larry
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ill be sending a deposit for my Chardonney in 2 weeks!!!thanks to this really long thread im making this purchase with no hesitation at all,,thanks guys

Supratek modifications - update on this idea. Since I posed the question to the group, I've received numerous replies & have also considered the concept further.

I am not certain if it such a great idea & here is why:

Supratek's come with a life-time warranty which would most likely become void should there be any modifications performed. Prior to doing anything to a Supratek, you should contact Mick to get his thoughts on what you plan to do.

In my conversation with the audio engineer, he stated there are many reasons why Mick did what he did in order to accomplish what he has. He suggested that he would not be able to "give us back" the results he would want to give because there would be too much design work required to improve on what Mick has already accomplished. He suggested the best upgrade or modification "circuit wise" would be (if you love the preamp) to upgrade to a higher level model.

Hi Larry, Looks like I am moving at the end of February. I'll be in temporary / corporate housing until June. Then I will start looking for a house.

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Brian,
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I would be interested to know what Nick would do and what it would cost. I have a Cortese (about 2 years old).
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Have you figured out whether you are moving ?
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Thanks,
Larry
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I'd be interested. I also need to have the overall gain reduced and would like to have the sacrifice one of my dual outputs to get a tape loop in place.

I forgot to thank Jazzdude, he was the first one to let me know about the HAL-O damping instruments and the first one to talk about it here (i think).
Thank you, Jazzdude.

I´d like to recommend two products that I´ve tried lately and that in my opinion help to improve the sound.

The first one is the Foundation Research power cords, LC1 and LC2, (thanks David). I use them in my cd player, Syrah, and Cary 805c. I can´t say more then the sound is cleaner. For me it´s enough and that´s what a p.c. should make.
Last year I sold a Shunyata Anaconda Vx power cord because in my opinion colored and tamed the sound.

The other product I´d like to recommend are the HAL-O damping instruments. They help in the same way, the sound seems more defined and cleaner. I use it in every tube I have and you can sublety modifie the sound puting them in one tube or another and even with the position in the tube, up or down. Play with it.

Supratek Modifications - would anyone be interested in a "package" modification to Supratek preamps? I am currently having my Cortese looked at by a local audio engineer named Nick Gowan who operates the US service center for Audio Note & Nagra - as well as a few other brands. Nick's website is at http://www.tsound.com

Anyhow.... Upon opening my Cortese, Nick discovered a few issues which if addressed, could potentially improve the transparency, decrease hum, minimize sensitivity to microphonics, etc.

I considered asking Nick to spend the time required to package a list of improvements - but wanted to find out if there is enough interest among Supratek owners first - so would you let me know? Thanks!

I ordered a Cabernet first week in January. I guess I'm looking at late spring or summer!

Raytheprinter,

I ordered my Cortese in October and have heard nothing yet. I would not be surprised if it were another month or two. However long your wait is, it WILL be worth it. These are totally amazing preamps.

Raytheprinter:
I ordered a custom Grange in early December and my delivery date is uncertain. I wouldn't begin to even predict when you could expect a Chardonnay but it wouldn't surprise me if you waited 3-4 months. However, this is only conjecture based on other posts and my own experience. Why not contact Mick for his estimation?
Good luck in whatever you decide; IMO Mick's products are worth the wait.

im wondering if i ordered a Chardonney at the end of Feb. how long of a wait would i have?Could some of you guys check out my system and listening pref. and tell me if you think this preamp would fit in well,,,thanks

Jay- Mine Syrah does not have a gain switch. It was custom-configured with a mono-stereo blend switch. The umbilical can affect sound quality if it picks up some emi or rf noise, but what I was thinking of was in intermittent short/open connection. There are multiple very small solder joints at each end of the connector, all of which are vulnerable due to cord movement. BTW light tap on chassis audible does indicate a microphonic tube, as well.

Jay461 - As swampwalker said you are having problems with tube microphonics. By their nature all tubes are microphonic to some degree. Some more so than others. There are a lot of things to do. You should replace the tubes till you get a more acceptable pair. You can try isolating your preamp. I use a combination of brightstar airmass and symposium rollerblocks and hal-o tube dampers. There are many other isolation products out there also. Some use small innertubes from children's bikes. Under-inflated works better than fully-inflated. Considering the prices of some of these you should probably try the innertubes first to see if it helps. You also might want to consider the placement of you system rack relative to your speakers.

Swampwalker thanks. Just a light tap nothing serious. I have been very careful with the insertion and removal of the tubes and making double sure everything is the way it should be.

Did your umbical effect the sound quality also do you play the pre with gain swith (just behind the 6SN7 tubes) in the on or of position?

I have mine set to of.

Tapping the amp and hearing it in the speakers is a microphonics issue. How hard are you tapping? Don't know about the crackling, but I did have a problem with the power umbilical. When you move tubes around, you could be jiggling it. Make sure it is secure and fully in place, and then try moving it around to see if it makes the crackle.

Crackling sound from speaker due to 6SN7 tubes. Overall the sound of my Chardonnay(60hrs)is very nice except for the occational crackling sound I hear on the speaker. I have narrowed down the problem to the 6SN7 tubes.

With the stock EH 6SN7 tubes the crackling is constant even when swoping the tubes. The crackling follows the tube

With a pair of 6SN7 Mullards the sound is distincly better but the occational crackle does still exsist.

The crackle at any given time occurs only on one speaker
Also, when I tap the amp chassis with my finger(not the power section) I hear the tap (amplified)from the speaker...is this a grounding issue?
Your input is much appreciated.

Mhu - give it a shot. The Elrod is a great cord. I personally like the EPS 2 Sig you have much better than the EPS 3 Sig which to me had a certain harshness I couldn't live with. However, running an Electraglide Ultra Khan (not the series II or Statement - just the first generation Ultra Khan) from the wall into a Vansevers Power strip followed by the Elrod EPS 3 Sig into the component was very nice sounding. The Ultra Khan's detailed yet creamy sound removed the harshness of the Elrod and made for a superb combo.

Another interesting couple of cords are the NBS Statement - adds pace and slam to the music, and Harmonix X-DC Studio Master - which is extremely detailed but slightly bleaching.

Oh... you might also try the Supra LoRad - I think they're about 125 bucks. Lots of people I've talked to are using these to replace big buck cords. I've never tried one though.

Jazzdude you're right. The star dust, pixie dust, hocus pocus stuff is VERY colored but some of the other cables are colored in the other direction and cause a bleaching effect. Don't get me wrong, coloration and bleaching can be a good thing. The goal should be to make the component sound correct. In my experience the Suprateks do not need too much correcting - changing tubes takes care of most of what's required.

Bwhite:
I guess I won't know until trying it out with the Elrod in my system. Thanks for the suggestions, if that combo doesn't work out I would probably go with the Electraglide next.

Well you know many of the Shunyata line do color the presentation. Especially the Shunyata cords with that pixie dust built in. Come to think of it Shunyata even markets their cords in terms of their degree of coloration.

Hi Jazzdude - my mistake in classifying Shunyata as a "flavored" cord in all regards. You are correct, they do have the Alpha series which trys to be more neutral.

Bwhite: Did you try any of the Shunyata, BMI Shark, or Acoustic Zen with the Supratek? I have the Shunyata Taipan (alpha, i think) on all my amp/preamp. Used to have the original Taipan on the amp and preamp but it whitened the tone a bit. I don't consider either of the Taipan neutral, it errs on the transparent/detailed end of the spectrum.

Hi All, Have been reading the post for awhile now, and just thought I'd let you know my Sauvignon has been on order for over 3 months. Mick said last week not long now, but that he had just started on it. Is this the normal timeframe these days?

Mhu - choosing the right powercord is usually a matter of finding something which best suits your system - without going over the top. The Supratek will introduce some new benefits into your system and perhaps create deficiencies as well (I hope not). The cord which works best for you will ultimately be a matter of identifying what is introduced vs. what was taken away - and compensating.

Simple right?

In my system, Elrod PC's when used on amps and preamps are a bit over the top for bass but the EPS 2 Sig can create an awesome dimensionality when used on a digital source component.

For the Supratek, I usually find a more neutral power cord to work best. The two I like are the Electraglide Mini Khan (not the plus! the plus sucks!!) and the Moray James PWR 1.5. Moray's "new" PWR 2.5 can be good but I've heard mixed results with people who've tried the cable on Supratek's. Some like it and others do not whereas the 1.5 was almost unanimous - everyone I knew who tried it, loved it.

The one caveat is that if you are used to a more flavorful PC on your preamp (Shunyata, BMI Shark, Acoustic Zen, etc) you will not like the Moray James or Electraglide regardless because these cables are neutral and hence do not change the tonal balance of a component or create a hazy-sugar-sweetness to the music.

Since you've been using an Elrod on a previous preamp, I suspect your system requires something more neutral - (the EPS2 Sig is a bit less neutral than the EPS 3 Sig but still much more neutral than some of the other flavored PC's I've mentioned.)

Of course you'll want to give the Elrod a try but I think you'll find that the Supratek's bass (with the right tubes) is sufficiently accurate to the source and the Elrod may not be necessary in this application.

In which case try an Electraglide Mini Khan (copper) which will benefit the Supratek with increased transparency. Not transparency in terms of added highs - but more of a clean, purity to the sound. Much like live music vs. processed and compressed recorded sound. Or.. try the Moray James PWR 2.5 (the PWR1.5 is no longer available) for subtle improvement that introduces a lively & emotionally fulfilling sound & pace that once you've heard is difficult to live without.

Wow, what a thread! I've read some of it, but unfortunately not all. I have a Sauvignon coming from Mick, and wonder what Powercords people have played with that works well with it. I'm currently holding on to an Elrod Sig 2 from my previous pre. Has anyone tried that with the Sauvigon or found something better? Thanks.

Ethifi & Fiddler, thanks for the info - I didn't know there were multiple gain switches on the newer Chardonnay's.

Some updates... this time from Mick. He wrote:
"... you should be able to use 6F6G no problem. The thing is that 6F6G are at least 50 years old and there is no gaurantee that the tubes are as new - most tube testing is very vauge to say the least, and you have to be extremely lucky to get 2 perfectly matched tubes, despite what the sellers promise. There is a huge amount of hype involved with tube dealers. Quite likely it's faulty tubes. I'd send them back."
I have written to TubeDepot to see what they can do.

Andy of Vintage Tube Services just picked up a load of Sylvania 6F6Gs Last week...

Ethifi,

I need to qualify my last post.

I have the hi/lo gain switches on each channel inside my preamp, not on top. But I have the 6 position selector switch on the back like yours.

The only difference is that Mick apparently went to one external hi/lo switch instead of two internal switches. That would be much more convenient.

Ethifi,

It is not a new feature. My Chardonnay is exactly the same.

Hi Bwhite

Yes, these are the Brimar (typo mistake) and they are NOS from TubeDepot (perfectly matching pair @3080 uMHOS according to TubeDepot). My Chardonnay has low/high gain switches on the top panel and 6-position switch at the rear panel. The rear switch varies the load on the output transformer. I use the high-gain position on the top panel switch and the 3rd position on the transformer load selector. I am not sure whether the rear switch is a new feature. I have written to Mick and am waiting for his reply.

Ethifi - Sounds to me like you need some new 6F6G's. I'm not sure what the "Brima" brand is... Did you mean Brimar?

Tubeworld has a good selection of NOS 6F6G's. They may cost a bit more than you'd pay on Ebay but you'll be taken care of should you have problems with a particular tube.

Tubeworlds tube list is at:
http://www.tubeworld.com/tubes.html

Also.. what is this 3 way gain switch you're talking about?
I've only seen low/high gain switches on Chardonnay's. Is this a new "feature"?

Ethifi, I was using a Syrah before and now I am having a Chenin. I found no problem with Bendix, GZ32 and GZ34 with Syrah but for the Chenin, only GZ34 can be used. I was probably the first or second guy to own a Chenin and the first guy to realise this noise problem. I even shipped the whole unit back to Mick for inspection. I am using Sylvania 6F6G but there is no such problem found. I would suggest you to try out a pair of Sylvania 6F6G and see how it goes.

Eddy

When I wrote about the problem, the stock regulators were already back in place and there was no noise, even at maximum gain. Current setup (no noise): NOS rectifier, stock regulators, NOS 6SN7.
I also experienced no noise with this config: NOS rectifier, stock regulators, stock 6SN7. I have tried all combinations. Conclusion: as long as the NOS 6F6G are used, there was popping noise.

Ethifi,

In my experienced, the problem you described should come from the Bendix 6101. I had the Bendix beforehand when I received my preamp and found out the same anomaly as you pointed out. As you increased the gain, the popping (like a motorcycle idling) and tube rush sound increases in proportionality.

The Syrah can use the Bendix, but the Chenin (as Mick told me long ago) cannot due to a small change in the PSU. Maybe the new Chardonnay incorporate this change also.

goodluck

Received my NOS tubes the other day...
Tried them out on my Chardonnay this morning but ran into noise problem with the 6F6G.
Appreciate if anyone could offer some help/explanation.
I have also sent an email to our tube guru (Ecclectique).

First, these are the NOS tubes I am using:
- Bendix 6101
- Sylvania JAN CHS 6SN7WGT (3080/3430 uMHOS, 3255/3115 uMHOS)
- Brima 6F6G (black round plates; perfect matching pairs @ 3080 uMHOS)

I first replaced all the stock tubes with these NOS tubes, set gain switch at the back of the preamp to the 1st position (my preference is the 3rd position), volume set to zero, and turned on the power amp last. Quiet. Waited for a minute. Still quiet.
Popped in a CD and noticed immediately improvements in imaging and dynamics.
Half way through the first song, I increased the gain by switching to the 2nd position. Sounded better. Still quiet. When the song ended, I switched to the 3rd position. After about 20 seconds, there were soft popping sound coming from the speakers and it grew louder... they sounded like fireworks... pi pop pi pop pop pi pop). I immediately switched back to the 2nd position and the noise was gone!

Next I swapped out the NOS tubes with the stock tubes, one by one until I found out which tubes were giving problems. To my surprise, it was the Brima 6F6G! I thought it would be the 6SN7. Thinking that I could still enjoy music through the new tubes, I switched to the 2nd position. Unfortunately, this time around there was that same sort of noise, even at the 1st and 2nd positions.

I don't recall anyone in this thread having problems with their 6F6G.
Is the noise I am experiencing microphonics? Is there a workaround or way to eliminate this problem? Is it possible the tubes are faulty?
Why was it okay at first when switch was at the 2nd position?

Would appreciate very much if anyone could offer some pointers what I should do next.
Thanks in advance

Hi Jazzdude,

Thanks for your effort. It certainly was informative and will help me in my selection of a preamp.

Thanks Mustang. You are right, he does answer e-mails, and I sent him one this afternoon.