Hi Gang. Jphii and Stiltskin, thank you for your kind words regarding my recommendation of the 6f6g as regulators in the suprateks. They still continue to be a revelation to me as well. Bwhite.... I am a little perplexed as to why the cv-181/ecc32's would cause that effect to the remote in your friends syrah, as I had none of these problems when installed in mine. That said..... I should clarify a few things here first. Although the cv181 and 6sn7 have the same pin out and can be substituted in "some" circuits.In actual fact....they are quite different electrically and one must be very careful here. The cv 181/ecc 32 has different electrical characteristics and parameters. The cv181/ecc32 has different mu,gm, bias points and also requires much higher heater current than a 6sn7. It also has close to 30% more gain then an american 6sn7, and will sound louder than the 6sn7 at equivalent gain level. Some will perceive this extra gain to sound better,fuller,etc . While I concurr that the bottle shaped ecc32 is a great sounding tube when optimally biased ....however, it should really be rebiased when used in the supratek and would sound even better if it was biased closer to it's optimum sweet spot. However... like a many tube circuits, "system synergy" is the optimum word here and is really what tube rolling is all about. Jpms.....regarding your concerns with gain and sensitivity issues of the cary 805c when paired with highly efficient speakers.I can assure you that there would never be an issue with any of the supratek gain options or gain configurations. The Cary 805c [when optimized and voiced with better tubes] has to be considered one of the finest sounding tubed amplifiers ever made and certainly top shelf by anyones standards.When paired with the Supratek, you have a synergy that is nothing short of breath taking! I use Tannoy Westminster [98db efficient] and powered them with the 805c for more than 3 years and I still kick myself for selling them. When I received my syrah [which has both a high gain/low gain switch]. I never had an issue with noise or any other glitch's with either gain setting. A very big caution here though; and a good example of what I was alluding to earlier! If you have acquired the cv181/ecc32 to substitute the 6sn7 in your supratek. Do "NOT" substitute these for the 6sn7 in the Cary 805c, the current draw for the cv181/ecc 32 is far to high for the filament transformer in the cary 805c and could damage both the amp and the tube!!!
Preamp Deal of the Century
If anyone is looking for a true "World Class" preamp at a very fair price..heed my advice. I just recieved a Supratek Syrah preamp that was hand built by Mick Maloney in Western Australia, and it is absolutely beautiful! This preamp is the best deal you will ever find. I would put it up against any preamp out there for both looks and sound. Price? $2500 for the Syrah (includes Killer Phono stage). Not into phono? Try the Chardonney line stage for $2100. Don't get me wrong, I am not associated with this company. I am just a very happy owner! This preamp is VERY dynamic, yet liquid. It conveys the sound of music better than any other preamp that I have ever heard! You can check out the Supratek website at www. cantech.net.au
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Slipnot, . Call Fed Ex, explain what has happened and ask the favor of moving it to you by a late Wednesday afternoon delivery. . They can move the shipment Monday night (assuming U.S. Customs does their thing on Monday) from Alaska to Memphis and then out from Memphis early Tuesday or Tuesday night and then possibly deliver to you on Wednesday. . I would ask for a supervisor tonight (Sunday) or Monday AM first thing and see if they can push it through Customs early on Monday and beg them to move it Monday night. . They do sometimes respond to emotional pleas. Do let them know it is a big deal to get it before Thanksgiving and how long you have been waiting. . If all works out well, you can piss your family off by screwing around with your new Supratek instead of by watching a game. . Rgds, Larry |
This is posted as a heads up to those of you still waiting for your preamps from Mick, if they are being shipped into the USA. Make sure you provide Mick your Social Security Number or your EIN if you are a business, and insist that Mick include this info on the customs paperwork. Ask him to confirm with you that he did so. I sent him my information when I paid for mine but did not ask him for confirmation. As a result, my Chenin is stuck in Anchorage, Alaska in a customs delay for lack of either of those two numbers. It seems that you also have to ask Mick for the FedEx tracking number as he doesn't send it if you don't ask. After failing to recieve mine in the 3-4 window last week. I emailed him tonight, got the tracking number saw that it was still in customs in Anchorage, called FedEx in Memphis, gave them my SS# and phone number. The agent I spoke with tonight was very helpful and said that now that the info was in the shipping data, it was her opinion that it could clear customs as early as tomorrow. I thought by learning from another owner who went through the same thing, I could avoid it by supplying Mick the info up front with my payment and a follow up email. Now- how long from Anchorage to the East Coast? Not to mention the Thanksgiving Day factor. Oh well, waited 8 months, another week won't kill me... |
Bryan, Thanks for the feedback. I agreed that those are really good looking tubes. I read from somewhere that the CV181's require higher current on the plates than the regular 6sn7 varieties, maybe that's the issue. Is it possible that the higher current rated GZ37 or GZ33 or even the 6106 could do better in this case than the GZ34. Eccletique the guru might be able to comment on this. Maybe I should continue with the quest for the TungSol rounds instead if they are sonically close. The TungSols are almost non-existent nowadays, sigh! It is starting to feel like an itch that the hands can't get to. |
I use Mullard CV181 / ECC32's in my Cortese. Take note, they are electronically different than 6SN7's. You can see photos of 'em in my system - good looking tubes to be sure. I think they sound very nice - much like the TungSol Rounds. Regarding the different electrical properties, I tried the CV181's in a friends Syrah and for whatever reason the preamp remote control stopped working and there was very low gain while the CV181's were in. Perhaps Ecclectique can explain? NOS CV181's are hard to find & quite pricey. |
HI Jay461 if you want to have a sweeter sound with your SS try RCA VT231 grey glass. If you want a substitute in almost the same ligue for Philips Miniwatt metal base look for GZ34 of these kind: -bakelite black base -with good flash down the top mica -double D getters -4 notch plates -from the late 50,s and early 60´s -branded GE or RCA. (with hole in center of base pin) You can find them maybe as low as around $30-$40 if you look patienly. I like 4 cut and double getter better than 8 cut single getter. 4 cut double getter is older, single getter was a cost cutting measure, cost cutting is usually bad for sound quality. Around the middle 60's the tube companies tried to cut production costs and many changes were bad for sound. My favorite GZ34 bakelite base was from late 50's. Like 1959 was a great sounding year!. But again the best are Philips Miniwatt , Mullard or Valvo GZ34 metal base. They are the best althogh hard to say for how much compared with the GZ34 bakelite base. |
I asked Mick about wich one of SAUVIGNON (linestage of Cortese) or CABERNET (linestage of Grange) would work better with single ended triodes like Cary 805C. He said that although the CABERNET is the cream of their preamps both have the ability to bring out the best of the Cary, although the Sauvignon has lower gain and might have better volume control... Does it have any importance with respect of amps? or is it more important if you have sensitive loudspeakers?. Or both?. Compared with the Syrah gain he said that the the Sauvignon is about the same as the Syrah in "low" gain while the Cabernet is about in between of the "low" and "high" positons. Someone could explain it?. I´d like to pair one of those preamps with Cary 805C Single Ended Triodes (50 watts) and Von Schweikert db99 loudspeakers (99db sensitive). I´d rather the CABERNET but I´m affraid to have very little volume control. |
Thanks Stiltskin, the price for those miniwatts are steep for me. Hence the second choice. I'm using my Chardonnay with a solid state power amp (MC352) and looks like most of you here are using an all tube set up(?). Could there be a different combonation of tubes for solid state as opposed to a tube amp? If so, then that begs the question what are the best tubes for the Chardonnay in a SS set up? |
HI Jay461,I am using a pair of Sylvania 6SN7W metal base along with the Sylvania 6F6G to stunning effect, yes the metal base 6SN7W are very rare,I have two pair of Tungsol black glass round plates ,one pair as new, never been plugged in yet... There is something going on between the Sylvanias that I like better, I need more time with comparing the Tungsols and the metal base Sylvanias.I am hunting down another pair of Sylvania metal base and will sell my near N.O.S. Tungsols once I find them.The tube store has some Philips mini watts non metal base for your p.s. if you are interseted. |
One more thing. I got my NOS, NIB Sylvania 6F6G's yesterday. After leaving the SyrTese on for a couple of hours while we went out for oysters, it was time for some serious listening and drinking. The system was ready after leaving one of those little silver things on repeat. While the women bitched about the volume, a friend who has spent quite a lot of time listening to my system said: "What the hell's up? It didn't sound like this last week." He didn't even notice those big old fat bottle tubes in the PS. All he knew in his decidedly non-audiophool way was: "Man, that's the cat's ass! It sounds great!" And that was even with an album I'm not particularly impressed with. When I whipped out the old classic MOFI DSOTM, he about wet himself! Suffice it to sat that I am EXTREMELY impressed with this tube. David, I cannot thank you enough for the reccomendation. I can say now that I will not be looking for another set of WE350b's. I was more amazed than my buddy. Now we all know there are some truly exceptional tubes that make a Supratek come alive, and this is one of them. And only $35! Compared to 6-8 hundred for the WE's? If you can find a set, try them. Far and away the best tube improvement I've heard so far. And that's after 4 hours of listening. I can't wait for them to really open up. |
Quick question: Are Cello and I the only ones with the 6c45pi tube in the phono stage? Vade was kind enough to email a link for new Reflektors, but the seller is in Europe, and his minimum order is $140. That's 13 tubes. SO' I'll make the order if there are some of you who can use them. They can't be much more than $13 including shipping. I need four, so that's 9 up for grabs. Enough interest and I'll order on Monday, 15 Nov. Joe |
Mondie, have you received your Cabernet? Dying to know how it sounds!! Sorlowski, I enjoyed reading your thread. It did not bore me to death, in fact it actually strengthened my faith in Supratek. I'm sure with you'll get your ideal "apartment" soon. Cheers, Kenji...still waiting patiently for my Cabernet. |
I only hope I will not bore you guys to death, but here it goes. Long time ago while living in Poland I used to have ProAc Studio 100 with Electrocompaniet ECI-2 and Arcam 6 player. I know nothing fancy, but sound for me was excellent, bass was not low but was fast tuneful, I had fast transients, nice micro and macro dynamic. Music simply was alive. I have moved to „apartments” north from Phila (I still did not figured out why they are called this way, apartment in Europe means luxury flat not lousy barn from paper..., how true apartments are called – super apartments squared ?). Now I could afford bigger stereo so I have bought Thiel 3.6 and MF A300 (I’m using the some player). I was expecting better sound. But it was not the case, voices were dead, transients from big Thiels was nonexistent, dynamic in micro and macro scale was nonexistent. How so big speakers could sound so anemic, lifeless ? I just could not understand it because I had audition small Thiels 0,5 while in Poland and they sounded really good to me, they was to expensive to me though ($2000), I have bought Thiel 3.6 for $1800 here :) (Wadia cost 13k$ in Poland and there is no second market for it, AudioAreo Capitole new cost about 7k$). So problem must be somewhere else. After a while I have figure out that paper walls and power mains and L shaped living room with kitchen are to blame. So I figured out I will have to recompense it by buying much better equipment. I changed source from SACD SONY (9000ES) what a downgrade it was - wrong path – think again - this time harder. Next I tried to replace MF A300, so I bought Clayton M100. A little better, stronger bass more liquid sound but still not there. And there is „deal of the century thread”. I did not believed that preamp would matter that much, but it was my last resort, what I got to lose (nothing - no maybe 3k$). After half year of waiting I got it. I was afraid to turn it on to not to be disappointed again. But I have gather my courage and: first impression with stock tubes was very very positive, I finally disconnected my MF A300 (was using it as pre with Clayton), there was music again, nice rich vocals, liquid sound, even stronger bass, but the most important - sound was alive again like it was years ago. I was really moved. Even BMG CD’s are now listenable. So even lousy power mains in my „apartment” (when my wife is ironing bulbs are blinking like Christmas tree) were not able to kill Supratek spirit that good it is. How preamp could make such difference (cdp, power amp could not do it) I do not know. I just cannot imagine and wait when some day I will be back to my 1.5 feet wide brick walls in Poland and will connect it to decent power mines. It could be really something. But for know this is my first not SS component. I’m trying to improve it by tubes rolling. So far I have changed to Ken Rod Black Glass VT231 and Philips Miniwatt, there is a difference vs. stock tubes but it is really small, maybe will be bigger after cdp upgrade, and I’m sure will be huge after barn to true apartment upgrade :) so there is a lot for me to look forward. |
. Slowhand, . I bought a bunch of different 6922's for my phono stage and I am just getting started with the first pair. I got slightly sidetracked by a few Hurricanes that rolled through followed by a bunch of traveling. . I have some Amperex gold pins, Telefunkens and a few others. All were highly recommended and quite expensive. I have it in my plans to start rolling them soon, but it will take a while. They are all NOS, so I will have to break them all in before I can do any worthwhile comparisons. . I will post my reactions once I get to the point where I can do some fair comparisons. . |
Jay461, . Regarding 6sn7 tube choices: For me, in my system, The Tungsol Black Glass Round Plate NOS are the best by a wide margin. . The Tungsol’s are hard to find but well worth the effort/money. . Try Bob Malecki at www.tubeseller.com or email him directly at tubeseller.com - best to email him and tell you what you are looking for. He specializes only in 6SN7's. He is not cheap, but quite honest and all of the tubes I have gotten from him have been excellent quality. . You can email him and if he does not have a tube in stock he will contact you when he finds a pair matching what you want. . Also try Brendan Biever at www.tubeworld.com or email him at tekman@tubeworld.com. Great inventory of all types of tubes - expensive, but honest and great quality tubes. . I think you are better off paying a bit more on the expensive tubes from a reputable dealer who will stand behind his products. . Good luck - you are going to have some fun. . |
Jay461, I highly recommend the Tungsol round Plates VT-231/6SN7. There are three types that I have. Looking at the top (clear glass), both filaments are horseshoe shape but one is oriented on the same direction, and the other type is 180 degrees from each other. Also, I have a pair with 180 degrees horse shoe filament but the plate that supports the filament are complete circle instead of an oblong type. All of them sounds great! On my Chenin, I tried RCA gray glass, Kenrad VT231 staggered plates, Sylvania VT231 bottom getter, and Raytheon VT231's with good results but nothing comes close to the Tungsols. goodluck |
. Jay461, . After a lot of trials, I have had by far the best luck with the following: Rectifier - Philips Miniwatt GZ 34 Regulators - 1st choice WE 350b (absolute best) 2nd choice Philips Miniwatt EL 37 . Do wait about 200 + hours or more before trying to do any tube rolling. . Good Luck & Enjoy (you will) . |
Chardonnay-what's the best sounding tubes for the line stage, regulator and rectifier. I should have my chardonnay in a couple of days. Yes, I will let it run in before doing any kind of tube rolling but in the mean time would like to start making a list of prefered tubes and buy them at my own sweet time. Your valued suggestion's please. |
They are round plates. I actualy got them on ebay, and he has more, buy it now only, at $15 each. Here is the link to the ad: Ebay 6F6G His name is David. He has eight left, of different brands. I should have bought all of the ST shaped tubes, but I wasn't thinking. At least he won't jack up the price, so others can get this deal, well, at least 8 more tubes! Hope this helps. Joe |
Hello Ongkaku. Not a chance! The CV345 is "not" a direct substitute for a We 350b.... not even remotely close . It's American equivalent would be a 12E1. Maximum DC voltage for the screens is 300VDC. The cv 345 is basically an octal based 807. There are thousands of Genelex CV 345/12e1's floating around and come up on ebay regularly and would typically sell for less than $10.00 each "and" they rarely get a bid. |
Have any of you guys had a mono switch installed by Mick on your preamps. If so, did it improve the sound on mono LP's? I used to have an Audible Illusions preamp before my Supratek, which had a mono switch. It did improve the sound of mono LP's that I have. They just do not sound as good without it. |
. Slowhand, . The EL37's I have are Philips Miniwatt (made in Gt. Brittan) and are 1957 NOS. They measure just under 4.5" tall from the base (not the bottom of the pins) to the top of the tube. . I was told that the Philips was the best of the EL37's and it is miles better than the stock tubes that came with my Cortese. . The WE 350b is quite a bit superior to the EL37's and I am glad I invested in them. As regulator's they should last almost indefinitely so the real cost is quite minimal. I may try to find a pair of 6l6g's just on David's (Ecclectique's) recommendation and to learn a bit more. . I would suggest you keep your eyes out for a pair of 350b's assuming that it fits into your budget. You can always get your money back out of them down the road. . What part of the country are you in ? . |
Hi Gang. Lately,I have had quite a few emails regarding the 6F6 tube that I used for regulation duty in the Supratek.Some history: There were many versions of the 6f6 [a power pentode] that date back to the 1920's. They were predominately used as output tubes in old radios,juke boxes,TV's and some very early guitar amplifiers. The very first versions of the 6f6 types were all metal envelopes similiar looking to the first versions of the 6L6 and 6V6 metals [power tetrodes] which can also be used for regulation in the supratek. The metal 6f6 sounds dreadful in the supratek [same goes for the 6L6 metal] I have also tried other versions of the 6f6 glass tubes with flat plates that are mediocre as well. The "only" 6f6g tube to use in the supratek that will sound similiar to the we350b is the shoulder shaped 6f6g version with the round black plate internals. Appearance wise, these bottles are shoulder shaped like a we 350b or a gec Kt-66 style tube. "None" of the other 6F6 types will sound like these! I think our Bwhite posted a picture of my 6F6g back in the thread [ 02-21-04 ] Thank you Bryan. I believe the tube in the picture was made by either Sylvania or National Union and relabelled for Rogers. I have also seen this particular tube relabelled as Philco, Westinghouse, Marconi, Brimar,silvertone and Emmerson. Do search them out gang as they truly are oustanding in the Suprateks! Cheers |
Hi Larry, I am using a Phillips Miniwatt metal base GZ34 in the rectifier position. What brands do you recommend in the EL37 and can you tell me how tall this tube is? I have a height issue on the power supply in my rack. I just recieved a pair of Rogers 6F6G's from Ecclectique. He told me that they come within a hair of the sound of the WE350b's. I have never heard the WE350b's, but I can tell you that he has never steered me wrong. I loved these tubes from the very first note of music. They are very detailed with good dynamics, a huge soundstage and very good resolution of the music. I also use GEC KT66's. In contrast, the KT66's are warmer with a little fatter, but well controlled bass. I like the KT66's for some nice slow jazz. My favorite thing about Mick's preamps is how you can "voice" the sound to your liking or mood just by changing tubes. God, I love this hobby! Just a note, my nieces husband is a musician and after hearing both the KT66's and the 6F6G's he felt that the 6F6G's came a little closer to the sound of real instruments (especially guitar). |
Thanks Ongkaku, Mick emailed me today to say the pre is on the way and that it definitely has the TJ PX4's. Just got my power amp back from repair today too after being 4 weeks without music, there is some serious listening to be done next week when the Cab arrives. Mick in his latest email said the PX4's were - "Better sound, quieter,lower output impedance- they really are fantastic" What more could you want :^) Cheers |
. Slowhand, . Now look for some Philips Miniwatt GZ34's and EL37's and a pair of reasonably priced WE 350b's and you are set for the line stage. . On deck is some work on the phono stage if you have an interest. . From what I have been told, you are in for more than a treat with Mick's latest iteration of the Cortese. It is supposed to be quite an upgrade even from the earlier Cortese models. . Let us all know how you fare with your tube rolling and eventually when your Cortese arrives. . Rgds, Larry . |
