Recommendations for improving visceral impact?

Hi! I recently upgraded the majority of components in my system, and am happy with how it's going. I'm very happy with the detail, musicality, and separation of instruments. However, I think it's still lacking in visceral impact and also (particularly in two-channel listening) spatial imaging (both left/right and depth).

Our primary use is home theater - so improving impact is more important to me than improving imaging.

Here's my setup - would love any recommendations for ways to improve...

Left & Right: B&W 803S
Center: B&W Nautilus HTM1
Rears: B&W 301
Sub: Monoprice 10" Monolith
Preamp: Marantz AV8802A (with upgraded fuse)
Amp: Rotel RMB-1585
Amp/Preamp Interconnects: Bluejeans RCA

The room is approximately 18' deep by 20' wide. I've added GIK acoustic panels around the room, as much as possible based on room layout and aesthetics.

Unfortunately the couch is against the wall, which I'm guessing isn't helping... but there's no other option for placement. I've also tinkered with speaker placement as much as possible; the B&W's like to be quite far apart, and I'm maxed out on width at this point.

I'm using the Audyssey room correction -- it's necessary since the front left speaker is a few inches from the left side wall and a corner, and is incredibly boomy without it.

I'd prefer not to change out any components at this point, so my thinking is that the interconnects between the Marantz and the Rotel, and perhaps from changing power cords and/or adding a power conditioner, could be the way to improve here.

Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!

awilder03-04-2019 4:52pm

18 responses Add your response

sgordon1 Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 144 posts 03-04-2019 at 05:19pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Do you use a Schumann Resonator? Do you use an air ionizer in the room? If you have carpet on the floors, do you vacuum it before critical listening? Do you treat cables, components, speaker cabinets, and walls with anti-static spray, applied with a moistened cloth? (Also great to spray on carpet, before vacuuming!) Do you use a Walker Talisman? What you aren't saying may be more important than the information you are sharing... a different perspective is sometimes all it takes.
erik_squires Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 5,268 posts 03-04-2019 at 05:26pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Check out the GIK bass and soffit traps, they will help room correction work better. Set your main speakers to small. Turn off room correction. Put your sub in your listening location, then walk around possible placement locations until you hear the best bass. Put your sub there. Re-apply room correction. Best, E
awilder OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 40 posts 03-04-2019 at 05:52pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Thanks Erik. I do have a couple of the GIK Bass traps (just two, one in the corner near the sub, the other in the opposite corner). And I don't think I can add any more traps or panels if I want to preserve my marriage.... Interesting idea to set the main speakers to small. The sub is in pretty much the only place I can put it -- though I've done the 'crawl' and I think it may be in the best location already anyway. Perhaps I'm using the term "visceral impact" incorrectly. It's not so much the "boom" at the very low end... it's more about the fact that the system feels a bit recessive overall, or not as "forward" as I'd like. Said another way, it doesn't make me want to _move_.
helomech Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 766 posts 03-04-2019 at 05:53pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Replace those B&W with super large JBLs - done.
awilder OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 40 posts 03-04-2019 at 06:00pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Ha! And yep, after a bit more Googling, I see that I definitely used the wrong term. I'm looking to help improve presence, and help the system feel a bit more forward.
birdfan Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 50 posts 03-04-2019 at 06:09pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete I certainly agree with all the recommendations noted thus far. I know you said you were happy with your current gear, but looking at your system, I can't help but think your current Sub is the weak link here. If tweaking the room acoustics doesn't get you where you want I would seriously consider replacing your current sub with something like a REL t9i, or better yet a pair, would certainly get you closer to the visceral impact your looking at. RELs will also give you better imaging, depth of sound stage,a and will help with the "there-ness" you're looking for.
jameswei Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 795 posts 03-04-2019 at 06:20pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete I agree with birdfan. Multiple subs would contribute to a more even distribution of bass impact, as well as more bass volume.
awilder OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 40 posts 03-04-2019 at 06:45pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Thanks all. Reading a bit more about "forwardness" and "presence" it seems more like the 1khz to 3khz range tends to be related to what I’m talking about. So I really don’t think the issue is <60hz... and therefore probably not a subwoofer issue. (and unfortunately I also don’t have the space for a second sub, nor a larger sub...the Monolith 10" is already quite a beast!)
dave_b Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 2,267 posts 03-04-2019 at 06:59pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Your main speakers lack impact/presence for two channel, right? Too far apart is no good. Placement/distance to seating area next big thing. Can you use XLR’s? If so, try some good musical cables like MIT or Audioquest. Actually, the speaker cables will make the biggest difference and MIT technology really shines in that area. Best bang for buck in an unbelievable power cord bargain/performance is the Anticables Reference at $330!! Absolutely stunning.
glennewdick Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 702 posts 03-04-2019 at 07:12pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Vacuum your carpet before critical listening? really we are going there now. Next we will have threads on what vacuum sounds the best.
nonoise Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 4,382 posts 03-04-2019 at 07:36pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete I thought you couldn't hear anything in a vacuum. 😄 (Couldn't resist). As for the OP's dilemma, if only you could just sit closer and move those speakers closer together. All the best, Nonoise
sgordon1 Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 144 posts 03-04-2019 at 08:08pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete glennewdick, if you can't hear a difference, then there is no difference. simple as that. suggestion: don't do it.
mzkmxcv Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 558 posts 03-04-2019 at 10:31pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete All speakers should be set to Small if your sub is competent. it seems more like the 1khz to 3khz range tends to be related to what I’m talking about. Audyssey’s default adds a 3dB dip at 2kHz, so that’s likely the issue (it also lowers bass). Buy their $20 app and correct the response by turning off Midrange Compensation (MRC) and adding back in the bass. So, it should go from these presets to something more like this (tweak with it).
awilder OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 40 posts 03-04-2019 at 11:14pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Well that's quite interesting, @mzkmxcv! It looks like the Audyssey app doesn't work with the AV8802A though. :( https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/audyssey-multeq-editor-app/id1210584625?mt=8 (Anyone know otherwise?)
mzkmxcv Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 558 posts 03-05-2019 at 12:33am Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete @awilder Yours has the older version, which has Audyssey Pro; which was basically a more advanced version of the $20 app, but costs $200 for the Pro kit :( and I don’t even know if you can still buy it. My Denon also is too old for Audyssey’s app, but I have a measurement mic so I manually adjusted the built-in 8 or 10 band EQ for each speaker instead, as I disliked that dip.
awilder OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 40 posts 03-05-2019 at 01:13am Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Maybe I'll just tinker with the EQ manually, too... Looks like I might be able to "curve copy" to use the Audyssey EQ results as a starting point? I also emailed Marantz to see if they had any suggestions on further apps/adjustments. Thanks!
awilder OP Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 40 posts 03-05-2019 at 06:58pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Heard back from Marantz. Nice that they replied quickly, but otherwise no luck. "Unfortunately, no. The 8802A didn't have the proper hardware to support that App. As far as any other Audyssey Apps for older models, I don't know of any. "There may be some 3rd party Apps to calibrate for room correction, but it wouldn't work in conjunction with the Audyssey software built into the AV."
mzkmxcv Details Discussions Posts This discussion Message User 558 posts 03-05-2019 at 11:56pm Copy Comment URL Report Comment Edit Delete Yeah, curve copy, boost 2kHz by 3dB (or to taste), boost 500Hz by like 2dB, boost 250Hz by like 3dB, boost 125Hz by like 4dB, boost 63Hz by like 7dB. Treble is also a little off, drop 4kHz down by like -3dB, 8kHz is sorta where it should be, 16kHz should be boosted by like 3dB. Harman’s target curve is for like a young-ish male, older people or people with more music exposure may want slightly different results: https://youtu.be/ySQV5OR71e4?t=1m43s Here are their latest findings (to my knowledge) on average preferred levels across different people categories.

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Recommendations for improving visceral impact?

sgordon1

erik_squires

awilder OP

helomech

awilder OP

birdfan

jameswei

awilder OP

dave_b

glennewdick

nonoise

sgordon1

mzkmxcv

awilder OP

mzkmxcv

awilder OP

awilder OP

mzkmxcv

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Klipsch RP1200SW

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Datasat RS20i Current Reference Processor / Pre