Sony DVP 9000

Twl
I would like to hear the results of an a/b with vinyl and one of these tubed output CD players. I think it would be very interesting.
Tim

Tim, I believe that a good tube-output CD player can do much to smooth the edge that is commmon to CD sound. Unfortunately, it cannot overcome the inherent lack of resolution that exists with the CD digital recording/playback system. While the players now are very high quality, they are saddled with a recording standard that was set over 20 years ago at a resolution that is much too low. It is amazing that it even sounds as good as it does, and that is a testament to the manufacturers of the better CD players. In reality, the possibility of CD matching analog for sound quality is non-existant. At best, CD will come close enough to analog for some people to accept it for the convenience and black background levels that are inherent in the CD format. I believe that has already happened. Well recorded SACD closes the gap even closer between analog and digital. But, it doesn't quite get there. If you read my 6/22 post on the "Vinyl is better than CD explanation" thread on the Audiogon Analog Forum, you will see that it is mathematically impossible for any sampling system to ever fully recreate a wave without error. The only question then is, can it get close enough for the human ear not to hear the difference? So far, they have not.

Twl
What about upsampling? 24/192 or whatever interpolating
Tim

Tim, the upsampling is simply more of the same, in terms of taking the original 16/44.1, and mathematically adding in a finer resolution grid on top. The problem with that is, that it is interpolating the already interpolated 16/44.1 signal. Since the original music has already been corrupted at the 16/44.1 level, the additional interpolation can do nothing but try to "guess" what the 16/44.1 missed. This results in a computer generated simulation of music that is not even what was in the original analog performance. It may sound more pleasing and smooth, but it is not the original music. I have heard upsampling players, and I agree that the music sounds generally more pleasing than non-upsampling. But, is it accurate? Or is it just a "synthesized" facelift? Technically, it is the latter. Let's say, for sake of discussion, that I had a modern art painting in front of me. And let's say that I thought I could make it better by connecting some lines that looked like they should be connected, but I really had no idea what the artist intended the painting to be. This might make the painting more pleasing to my eye, but it has changed the painting. It may not even be what the artist intended any more because he may have had a concept that I am not aware of. This is what the sampling/upsampling does. It makes changes based on a program that actually makes up sections of waveforms based on what it's program thinks should be there. It has no idea what should actually be there. If the original recording had been done in 24/192, then the waveform has higher resolution than CD, and if played back in 24/192, should sound better than CD. Still not perfect, nothing is, but better. So, overall, I advocate higher sample rates over lower sample rates for their inherent higher resolution. If you noticed, I did not interject vinyl into the discussion. But one could say that the ultimate form of digital would actually be analog(an infinitely high sample rate that would represent a theortically perfect copy of the original waveform). So we are going around in a big circle trying to get what we already have had for years. Again, stating the mathematical proof of "Limits", it is theoretically impossible to sample any wave without error, no matter how high the sample rate. So, thus, I state that it is a case of chasing your tail. You are never going to get there. However, you may get close enough to satisfy yourself or others, with a high enough sample rate. This is why I say that I am a proponent of these higher resolution formats over the CD format.

there is no doubt that vinyl sounds significantly better. However, like many people my age, I have far too much invested in CD software. My wife would destry me if I were to start buying vinyl copies of CDs I already owned. Its tough enough to justify my CD purchases. By the time I was old enough to know how much better vinyl sounded, it was too late. Luckily CDs can be playued by SACD players, so its a no risk buy.

And good CD recordings played on an above average CD player are more then acceptable.