Soundstage, Imaging, Detail & Presence??

http://www.stereophile.com/reference/50

Charles1dad,
That sentence, beautifully constructed,"...the simple point is our ears are great and can perceive the many nuances and subtle characteristics in music that as of yet can`t be quantified with measurements."...is so true as to be the crux of many disagreements.
Back in the day, I used to ask Jim Thiel why he didn't use better caps and air core inductors, resisters, etc, in his crossovers. He would coyly say, 'Because they measure as they do with the components I'm using.'

That was all well and good--but then the next day, I'd be talking to Bill Conrad of cj, and he'd be waxing poetically about the caps they were having made to their specs and how they spent hours deciding which cap goes where and so on. I was confused and frustrated with Jim, one of my icons.

Many years later, I realized that the 'pragmatic' business side of Jim was simply winning the battle for saving the world from bad audio, and keeping THIEL Audio in business.
Every, we'll call it 'additional' penny(s) a manufacturer spends on internal parts, is a penny that doesn't come back as profits. So, if a $.58 piece of stuff works, why spend $4.35?

It wasn't until the twilight of Jim's life that he publically changed that position by making the CS2.4SE. As you may know, it offered upgraded parts in the crossovers.
When interviewed, Jim said, 'Well, there are some things that can't be measured, but exist in audio.' I'm paraphrasing, but that's the intent of the comments.
These speakers came out AFTER my LSA Statements hit the streets, AND after Sherry Graham (formerly of THIEL and new owner of LSA speakers) came to work for LSA. There may have been NO correllation, but anyone who's heard the LSA1 or LSA2 Standard/Signature/Statements can easily attest to the differences, the ENORMOUS differences that higher quality parts can make in circuitry.
Hell, two carefully chose Amprex 6dj8 tubes Circa 1962 in my Statement LSA Amp, even using the ridiculously expensive parts we use, 'transform' that amp into another realm.

There was a transmission commercial on TV years ago, touting the quality of parts that a company used...the 'stupid guy' trying to make the opposite point, says, 'Parts is Parts'! That always resonated with me.
Great comment Charles1dad.

Larry

Hi,
Larry, thanks for the kind comments and for sharing such an insightful experience you had with the late Jim Thiel.I have much respect for engineers and scientists, but when it comes to audio there`s still so much that has yet to be explained or understood completely.Those who rely "exclusively" on the measurables and down play what we can clearly "hear" are in a state of denial IMO.

In many recordings, those terms are artificial and imaginary. In some good live recordings, a bit less so. It's not that multi-microphone, multi-track can't recreate an audience perspective, but it's recreated. "Don't look behind the curtain". Stereo IS subtle deception.

In the reproduction chain, various equalization, distortion, room interaction and time smearing can enhance or detract from ambience and all those terms.

You can't always trust your ears but what else are you going to suspend of disbelieve.

"These are things most audiophiles never find"

Actually Buconero 117 this is not true, if you follow the tube path to find them. I'm not sure it can be realized with ss, at least I haven't heard it but then again I expect it would be extremely pricey if it does exist going that road.

Paraphrasing someone telling me a long time ago that "when you can connect to the music with your poor recordings as well as the great ones you have arrived.