Not meant to be subtle. Didn't think car pics were appropriate for Audiogon, that's all. Guess you were probably joking? Maybe too subtle for me. |
Jmcgrogan2.Boy that was funny.LOL
Simon.What "colonies" are you talking about?
Isn't Scotland a British colony?Isn't true that Britain started life as a Roman colony?What about the Viking invasion?
Best
George |
George,
Yeah your right but it doesn't mean we have to like it.
Post a bit antagonistic inspired by the year long saga of trying to get the Pass Labs fit for purpose.
Came from their factory with a clean bill of health - one year, two engineers, new op amps and lots of my money later,
it still makes strange noises no other amp I've ever owned makes.
Lugging 100lbs of amp all over Scotland to try in other systems(with the same problem showing whenever said amp entered the equation), did not tie in with the blame laid on my mains or grounding loops.
I have ten turntables so suggestions that I couldn't recognise a grounding loop was adding insult to injury !
The X-250 was the biggest purchase I ever made and the biggest disappointment !
The Naim bit was ott but unless things are different over the pond - 'The Flat Earthers' (Naim/Linn) were/are never the most forgiving or open minded school of people, slating anything and everything not made by these companies, hence the dig.
Jjmali - post your system and give us the benefit of your wisdom
Jmc2 - Art Audio,Border Patrol, EAR - dry,polite??? Baahh!
By subtle I meant something that sounds like real music, not metronomic hifi. There seems to be something inherently different in the way the envelope of the notes are presented
with some amps - everything starts with the same attack and ends with the same delay. Thunders along giving the gist of the rhythm but fails entirely to show any counterpoints between the players or instruments - unsubtle, unrealistic and bland but usually expensive and impressive looking and certainly at hifi shows, played very Loud in a Home Theatre set up.
Given the photos of Harley's (cutting edge technology, right enough) how can't I post my Turbo?
Si
|
Yeah... I know what you mean. VPI or my Spacedeck? Easy. Manchester United or the Yankees? Again, easy. 'Vette or Lotus S2? No question. But when it comes to Cary or Wright I gotta go with the US. Like the laid back style of those two - maybe it's the South or the Northwest air. Not sure. Still the Canucks and the Brits stomp all of the US solid gear and speakers I've heard. Haven't heard much tube gear from Europe except Nagra, which is about as good as it gets. But it's a long way from the UK. Bang for buck (and soul), I always put my money with the UK. |
Simon--
a side issue re, the Pass: why not contact Nelson Pass (as in Pass 250) via a post at diyaudio.com/ passlabs. Maybe s/one has encountered the same problem before. Cheers |
Hi Greg,
Had protracted contact with them over a period of 8 months but it seems impossible for them to accept that there could be a problem with one of their amps.
Ship it back & we'll fix was Nelsons ripost - yeah at my expense.
I won't bore you with the details but basically when you tell these people that your mains is well sorted and after 30 years you can tell a grounding loop from a problem amp, it becomes less friendly.
The fault was 'tuned' to a minimum but thats not inspiring in this level of gear. |
I would venture a guess that it's probably s/thing silly well hidden on a printed circuit at the local feedback stage -- but you've obviously thought of that already!
Oh well... |
I was told that the problem stemmed from very long earth tracks on the circuit board for the single ended inputs causing some kind of differntial voltage ?? between the channels.Balanced cables did not cure this.
Way too technical for me. The 'buzz' through the speakers is now reduced to a useable level but it's still there.
The design of this is seemingly different from the X-150 & THE x-350. ce la' vie.
Si |
Why is it when someone mentions Pass a thread gets derailed? |
Hmmn?
I got a lot of decent input from people who, I imagine read some of my other posts before deciding I was an idiot/troll.
Checking some of the personal comments, generally their posts (and systems) show - a slight ?????
My next post will be more mundane - customer service practices of shipping companies, cheers
Si |
Wasn't meaning to imply anything. |
Hi there,
Bio, didn't think you were. You made an interesting observation which I was unaware of.
I was refering to some prior posts.
I think this thread has run it's course - have a new Supratek to play with so back to the music.
Si |
Hi Si
I can only guess that your experience with American amps is very limited. Many of the tube variety American amps are the best I've heard at producing subtlety, prat and natural dynamic shadings. They include Atma-sphere, Joule Electra, Transcendent OTL amps and the Berning ZH-270 tube amp with the radical impedance converter. All these amps are at the front of the class in terms of the criteria you suggested were missing from American amps. Of course they would be limited in many applications due to their design excepting perhaps the Berning which is unlike any amp tube or ss.
As far as SS amps are concerned I am not sure which Pass amp you are referring to but I found the Aelph series excellent in all the applications I've heard. Maybe missing a bit of impact in the bass but making up in nuance, and a wonderful balance without being strident as most ss amps become sounding to me over the long haul. Most European and many Canadian products are overpriced here in the states and I don't feel they compare favorably value wise to their American peers. I also have a Supratek Syrah, nice pre for the money. You must listen to the Berning, it will awe you, especially at its price point. ;^)
Cheers |
Hi Tubegroover,
I'm sure there are lots of brilliant american amps but chances of hearing them over here are pretty much nil.
Only one dealer in Scotland stocks high end US gear and you
can imagine the prices - straight dollar to pound equivalent.
Hoping soon to get over to visit friends I've made on Gon and have a good old listen.
The Syrah introduces a lot of what has been missing with the Pass so I may have been a bit harsh on it.
Message there, don't blame the messenger !
Looking at the price of some of the tubes for the Syrah,
I think I'll make do with the ones it came with !
Rgds Si |
"The X-250 was the biggest purchase I ever made and the biggest disappointment !"
Yes, I too heard an X350 Pass and was also disappointed, unlike the Aleph series. Maybe the system was at fault but the dealer seemed to like the set-up even though I became bored after less than 5 minutes. Now again Si, you must go out of your way to hear the Berning. Check out the website for further info.http://www.davidberning.com/
This amp is something very special indeed and can be unhesitatingly recommended for most applications. Imagine crystalline clarity without glare or etch, presence that seems to be the sole domain of tubes, bass control of the best SS with the speed to deliver transients without overshooting the edges along with natural dynamics. This along with being as quiet as a church mouse, this is the Berning.
No I am not a dealer and have no vested interest but this amp is too good. My enthusiasm is unabated even after 3 years of ownership. These impressions were further realized after hearing the competition at the Montreal Audio show a few months back. It is an amp for those looking to attain a music reproduction system of the highest order without spending the megabucks of the high priced cost on object competition. Add this to the fact it is hand made one at a time by the American designer David Berning, a true innovator in power supply design and efficiency in the use of tubes. If it were manufactured to the standards it is hand made, it would most likely be 3X its price. It has demonstrated to me that there is no price/performance correlation among some audio products. Yes the Supratek Syrah is great at the price but I've heard better in the realm of the cost no object designs, most recently the Berning prototype, now we're talking music reproduction not sounds good.
My point Si is clear, the best American amps really do it!
Cheers |
You bought a Syrah, Simon? I'm jealous. Now tell us all about it. |
Hi Bio,
Still blown away by it - had to rewire to 240V - felt like the bomb disposal squad - poked the on switch with a stick and ran like f--
Fabulous looking, much larger than expected but my , what a sound. My system now sounds like it should for the money I have spent. Everything in oodles more but oh so natural.
Relaxed,hairaising - whatever the music is doing I can now hear it. There's a palpability, soldity - I don't know, albums I thought I knew are laid bare.
Strangely the line stage leaves me gobsmacked - I always knew my Nu-Vista cd was good but never to this extent.
The only slight gripe is the phono stage has a slightly speaker bound quality. May just be it spreads a bigger image
than my new'small' room can accomodate but I don't notice this with the linestage.
For the first time ever I can say I am enjoying cd's as much as vinyl.
I'd like to try my Quicksilver phono thru the Supratek but I don't want to go there - to many boxes/wires and some things must go to pay for the Syrah.
Must say it would give me pleasure even if I never switched it on - it really is the most beautiful piece of kit I've ever owned & Mick who makes them is great - a man of few words but he always gives you the one you need - Yes cut that wire - no for f--s sake don't cut that one!
Sorry if it's not anylitical but for the first time for a while, I'm just really enjoying everything, cd, vinyl or tuner - it's great !
Cheers Simon |
i suggest listening to canary amps if you can. very well made and are good values. their push pull 300b amps are sweet and powerful.
i am sure the mcintosh 275 will not disappoint you either. |
How long did it take? Now that I know it's worth the money... |
ARC has been showing American manufacturers (and lots of happy users) how good it can be for 30 years. |
Hi Bio,
Change a few valves in the Syrah. The rectifier valve in the psu was changed to a Mullard to great effect and a couple of valves in the phono stage were changed.
Also new to variable loading option for cartridges so that took a while.
Happy to report the phono now comapres with the linestage.
I'm spending 6 hours at a time just enjoying music.
All I can say the Syrah imo is all it is cracked up to be and more.
Changing to 240V was painless and took about 10 minutes once I plucked up the courage to go ahead and do it.
Cut two wires/solder together, heat shrink and tie out of the way - Bingo !
The only problem now is a hankering for the Cortese !!!!!!!
New cyberlink cables arriving tomorrow along with a stillpoints amp stand - like X-mas early.
Simon |
>>ARC has been showing American manufacturers (and lots of happy users) how good it can be for 30 years.<<
LOL |
Heres a crazy idea,if we could get 2500 audiogoners to pitch in 2.00 a week ,we could randomly pick a name every week and get a Cortese for someone every week.,,,just a thought |
I know I'm late to this thread... but Yes, to answer your Question Ralph, it must be a trick question. I love my Atma-Sphere OTL's. Simon74 guess the colonies have got something (musically) right. Cheers! |
I think many differences will arise because of sheer size alone. The typical listening space in an "english" system will be much smaller then a typical NA system. Quite honestly this is an approach dealt with by designers imho. I do however think much of the UK stuff is overpriced, underbuilt and overrated. Linn sources have been quite nice, the MF stuff fohgetabouit. Regardless if Krell and Pass is harsh and unmusical there is so much stuff out in the states that isn't. I live in Canda and I'm amazed really about how many companies there are across the border. Which is brillant. |
Lush, Just a little off subject but, Canada has a wealth of good speaker makers at an excellent value which would compare nicely with all the UK lot. Guess it sucks to be us huh. Not to mention all our TT's?! |
Yes R_F_sayles, alot of this has to do with the weaker canadian $$$ value. Don't get me wrong companies like Reference 3A, Energy, Revel, Paradigm, Mirage are all excellent speakers and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Again, we have a benefit of living in Canada though. Much like if I wanted to buy English gear in Canada, I pay a pretty penny because of the exchange rate. I can see why people in the UK question the value of amps from SimAudio, Classe', Bryston. I would too, at the prices they pay in comparison to home made stuff. The UK does seem to have a great selection in sources, Canada as well mind you with EMM Labs, older Museatex upgraded stuff by John Wright.
I just think the physical size and space of listening areas play a huge part in design. The differences in exchange rates play a large role in value. Theres my $0.02 or $0.017 in the US and $0.0096UK. |
I agree with Travis. The Audio Mirror PP1 is, in my opinion, an OUTSTANDING preamp. It is absolutely, hands down, the best as well as most cost effective preamp I have ever owned!!! For $799.00 it's a bargain. It's strong point is the all tube phono stage with plenty of gain for medium output moving coils. I use a Koetsu Red(.6 mv). I have spoken with Vlad many times on the phone. He's a stand up guy and a man of his word. If you have any problems, he takes care of it, no questions asked. I cannot give enough praise to the PP1 and Vlad. Exceptional product and price as well as great customer service to boot. Jeff |
Surprised this is still running !
My Audio Mirror is nice but came with teething troubles that, had I not known someone clever with valve amps would have cost me money. Lovely design (based on G Nardi design for Audio Note) but not very well executed.
Still very good value for money.
I instigated this cause I had a years worth of problems with a Pass direct from Pass - it was sorted by an engineer they recommended and I never got a bill, so do I assume they(Pass) paid the bill.
It's a lovely amp and I enjoy it but a years a long time to argue the toss with a company.
People say buy new from a dealer and your covered - problem is if I had to pay new prices for all my stuff it would be worth more than the house.
The Supratek has been a joy from day one, there are lots of amps I would love to try but I have to buy, ship, pay duty.
I have no doubt I would die and go to heaven listening to CJ,Wavelength, Manley etc, etc.
Must be a joy to live in a country where there are enough consumers to allow this amount of manufacturers to survive and prosper.
I love the fact that most american companies delight in providing information and talking about their products.
'Some' uk companies can't even answer a mail, the phone or lawyers letters - arrogant pricks.
I've no more to say, if not for my friends in the states, I'd still be trying to upgrade, it was a rash post brought on by a years frustration over my most expensive ever purchase.
I really didn't mean to antagonise fellow 'nutters', only prick the skin of manufacturers who treat their customers like idiots
Si |
My system has some limitations that may disqualify my answer, but I would audition the Odyssey Audio amps. I have owned the HT3 (with cap upgrade) since June of '05, and IMHO, it offers a taste of what the mega-buck amps I've heard offer at a fraction of the price. Since Odyssey offers better amps than my HT3, perhaps you would consider auditioning them. JMHO. |
Simon74,
I'm a Syrah owner as well. A Bear Labs amp will definitely handle subtlety. Relatively few around,very hard to audition unless you happen to know an owner. Might be a problem shipping also, 28" long,135 lbs. ;^)
Kirby |
A Bear Labs mosfet stereo?? Now THAT's what I'd call a serious product with a down-to-earth, no BS power supply -- indeed a healthy relation b/ween output VA to power supply VA.
Nothing wrong with good, basic design principles and no short-cuts, is there (except the cost and the rarity)..:) |
Joule Electra amps and pre-amps are very musical and beautiful sounding. Amps are quite expensive, though. Jud can build an 80 stereo OTL for you but will charge around $12,000.00. Lamm also makes amps that do everything (at least according to seemingly all reviews and reports) but they start at, what, $19,000.00 a pair? |
van alstine, musical design, quicksilver, yada yada yada |
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