After what seems like a hundred hours or more of reading. I think I am at the end of my search for subs. If anyone has listened to any of these subs, I would greatly appreciate your review on them. After all this research I have narrowed it down to 3 subs, I dont really care about any other subs, probably due to this 2 months of research. Exhaustion has set in and a choice needs to be made. I have only had the chance to listen to a few, best buy being my source for listening. I did listen to Martin, rel, svs sb 2000 and sb 4000. Rel and Martin's under 1k, did not give me toe tapping. Both svs's did. (I will be selling both my vanderstien 2wq, i havent listened to them in yrs and just want new toys) Other than BB, I have to travel quite far for hi end. I listen to 60/40 music/HT. My room is 8'x14'x24'. Front spkrs are totem winds. I will be purchasing one in February and a second with 6 months. In order these are my choices. 1. Svs sb 3000. 2. Rymthik f12se. 3. Paradigm defiance x12
I've read alot on svs and rymthik, can't find much on x12. Worried about rymthik only having 370 amp, yes I know it's servo. But svs is 800/2500. Quite a difference. I thought about 15 inch sub, but the weight is crazy. Ported is also heavy and possibly not up to my standards for tight music. So I guess my question is, who has listened to these 3 subs and what is your experience and evaluation of these subs. Details are appreciated. Thanks, Pete
@pcc67, your concern about the lower power output of the Rythmik plate amp as compared with that of the SVS would be valid IF the sensitivity of the woofers used in both companies subs were equal. They are not. Rythmik woofer drivers are unusually sensitive/efficient, so take less power to produce the same SPL.
By the way, the F15HP has a 600 watt amp (and a 15" woofer), and costs only a little more than the F12SE. I have a pair of F15HP’s (the DIY kit version---I designed and built my own enclosures), and unhesitatingly recommend them. I and others have found them to be one of the very few subs good enough to mate with even planar loudspeakers, the most demanding mating of them all! The F12G (the G for GR Research, OB speaker designer Danny Richie’s company. He collaborated with Rythmik’s Brian Ding on the paper cone version of the F12G’s woofer, which is what is in the F12G is) has found favor with owners of Magneplanar, ESL, and other high-resolution speakers.
Why are Rythmik woofers more sensitive/efficient? Rythmik designer/owner Brian Ding explains all in the technical information section of his company’s website. One additional factor is that the Rythmik Servo-Feedback circuitry is of benefit in many ways, including in the area of power amp/woofer output maximization.
Bdp24, thanks for the info. I really consider the f15hp, but really didn't want the wait. And in the long run if I move, i will need to move these monsters, 100 lbs each. Dont know if or when i will ever move. I'm getting old, lol. This is why I've been looking at 12 inch subs. Even the f12se is heavy at 75 lbs. This is why the svs sb 3000 is on my list at 50 something pounds. And the reviews on svs seem great. But rymthik really has my attention. I am sure I could easily build a cabinet, I have excellent carpentry skills an full work shop, but my electrical skills in electronics are not good at all. House electrical easy for me. Electronics, I do not understand. Lol
I don't own any of those subs, but I have a Rythmik F15, not the F15HP (and also a pair of F25s) and two SVS SB13 Ultras. The F15 is not that big or heavy. I have mine in my office system.
No experience with the Paradigm subs, I've never heard one. They make great speakers and the inclusion of ARC in the Paradigm subs is interesting. I tend to think of internet direct as being a better value in most cases than buying through a dealer network, but I could be wrong. I'd be a little concerned that you can't find much info about the Paradigm subs especially if you can't audition one first.
I would also suggest stepping up the Rythmik ladder to an F15HP, since it's about the same price as the Paradigm sub you're considering.
I know you said you don't want to consider anything else, but I think if you can find a used SVS SB13 Ultra you would get more bang for the buck than the SB 3000 and it'll be about the same size.
Thank Big Greg, I real wish they would ad a subwoofer category. Seems like many people are using subs. I don't want a used sub, really in the market for new. The pbk from paradigm defiance x12 will not be need because I will be upgrading my faithful lexicon dc1 to either a anthem mrx720 or avm 60, since I already have 2 amps. But that's another thread. I recently got back into audio after 12 yrs of everything sleeping. Long story, lol. Would really like to hear from some owners of the svs sb3000 and rymthik f12 or f12se. Give room size, music and HT experience. Thanks Pete
For what it's worth, I bought my SVS subs used in August 2014 and they are still going strong. There's a reason SVS offers a 5 year warranty on their products.
Not sure why people only look at numbers when comparing different subwoofer brands. After reading so much about SVS subs I finally ordered SB 2000 and SB 4000 and directly compared it to JL e112 and the paradigm prestige subs. There is absolutely no competition. JL and paradigm were a lot cleaner than the SVS. I am not saying svs makes bad subs but comparing svs to JL and Paradigm is like comparing one of those luxury Hyundai genesis car to a Mercedes Benz S560. Genesis is a good car but S class is just built better, faster, more refined and that is was it costs twice as much as the Genesis. Forget the numbers go have a listen yourself!
I've owned several SVS subs and for music they don't come close to JL Audio. Based on actual listening I prefer one JL Audio F112 v2 over two SVS SB16 Ultra subs.
Rythmik and HSU make better subs for the money in my opinion. SVS is still sold thru stores like BestBuy, so they have a dealer markup (of course they are a larger operation than HSU and Rythmik, so SVS’s production costs are whatnot are likely less, so it’s not like it’s a 2x price difference).
I will probably just borrow a paradigm x12 and maybe a JL from the audio store I do business with. I will also order a svs sb3000. But seriously I dont want 2 be over 3k and I want 2. Not one but 2. Everything thing I've read says get 2. I really wish I could demo a rymthik. JL does seem a bit snobby, 200 for a black gloss, must be alot more shinny then all the other sub companies charging 100. Sorry about my rant, but I dont like over charges and i wouldnt own a bmw or Mercedes if given to me, but to each there own. Really redicoulous. I wonder if they give 2 sub discount. I will look into this more. I have heard great things about JL, but looking at some reviews recently there also looks like they have unhappy customers. Not to bang up anything, I do my research and really hard to find anything bad about svs, same goes for rymthik. Price on both are almost half of JL. And I do appreciate excellent bass, but I also need reliability. 5 yrs and 1k. That's nice and easy on the wallet. 3 yrs and 2k, not so much.
Rythmik is more bang for buck than JL Audio, their $1800 sub measures similarly to their $2500 one.
Rythmik gives a slight multi-sub discount. Rythmik’s warrenty is also much better than JL Audio, 3 years vs 1 year for the amp and 5 years vs 2 years for the drivers.
I do appreciate all the info. I am sure JL is great, I just don't want to spend JL money. After lots serious consideration, I realize I dont want 100 lb subs. This is why I am looking at 12" subs. Trust me I struggled with it, until I was at best buy and went over to lift a svs sb 4k and said nope. Went over to the sb 2k and thought wow so much nicer. This is one reason why I am getting rid of my vanderstien 2wsq , down sizing for the future. Back in the day it was fine. I will be using the sub out on my dc1 and within 6 months get an avm 720 or the 60, not sure which one yet. Then purchase second sub.
Thanks mzk, I will probably call rymthik when I get back from vaka. See what they offer for trial basis. If all goes well I hope to listen to all 3 at the same time. Paradigm, svs and rymthik. No sure about JL. All have to meet my budget of 2 subs. Between 2k and 2500. I will rate on price, weight, warranty, customer service and sound. Apparently, no svs owners are replying to this thread. Thanks everyone, I will continue look back and see if anymore recommendations.
It's not always about the numbers. JL and paradigm sounded cleaner than svs. Svs makes good subs for the money but when it comes to accuracy and cleanliness of the sound svs cant match JL or Paradigm. Cant comment on rythmik as I have never heard one b4 but their service is not as good as others.
Cant comment on rythmik as I have never heard one b4 but their service is not as good as others.
So you've never heard one, but you know their service is not as good as others? Might I ask what you're basing that on?
I own three Rythmik subs and have never had one break, so I can't speak to their service, but anytime I've ever had a question they've been responsive and helpful. I don't know if they still do this, but they also let me transfer the warranty when I bought my first one from the original owner.
I'm sure rymthik is good. I have been all over the internet and never read anything bad about them. I've heard they are very musical subs. I've been researching subs for 2 months. Read so much that I read read same articles and reviews multiple times. Only good things about rymthik. JL is musical, but expensive. In my opinion in today's market place, it's over price for me and I can spend less and be happy, like I said, my opinion. But I have read electrical issues with JL. A few mentioned that and they where pissed about it. For me, 2k is alot to have problems. I am building a system and can not over spend. I want 2 subs and need a pre pro. Plus thinking about anthem amps on the future and selling my amps. But that further out. So 2k a sub is out of my range. I will definitely try out paradigm defiance x12 and see what JL my dealer has in my range. But svs still high on my list. I will be using my sub outs and letting arc figure it all out. Keep it simple.
when the numbers are measurements showing that it’s just as musical (distortion, group delay, transient response, etc.), then yes it does matter.
I don’t see how you can make any claims on their service. The fact is that they have a much better warrenty program than JL Audio, showing how much more faith they have in their products. I’ve already said SVS isn’t as good for the money, but their warrenty is the best I know of, plus they do upgrade programs as well as free upgrades if they did a recent revision on the model you bought. JL Audio covering the amp only for 1 year is a joke, even REL and MartinLogan are 3yr and even B&W is 2yr.
I will check out the paradigm defiance x12, but I just read a review in one of the audiophile mags. They said it was nice, but had port noise at low freq. Thought they did say the prestige 1000sw sound great. But it's 3k. Out of my range. I really don't want to be above 1200 per sub.
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