Want people to A/B fuses who is going to buy both to compare??Good luck with that one however i think the Synergestic is enough money spent this being said the Light a Fuse from Germany work wonderful for a lot less money.Good luck enjoy!
Synergestic Black Fuse vs Audio Magic BeesWax
Like to ask if any Audiogon Members compared the Synergistic Black Fuse Vs The Audio Magic BeesWax ( top of line). Let me know what differences in sound quality, what equipment was it in, and how does it compare between the two fuse. Current all my equipment has The Black fuses; I am just curious WTF Audio Magic is So Expensive! Is it worth a big jump with the Audio Magic??
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Zipost, I compared the SR black fuses to Audio Horizon Platinum fuses in my PL Int amp, Hegel DAC, Oppo 95 and Olive 06HD music server. Each piece of equipment sounded smoother and fuller with AH fuses. The SR fuses were a bit brighter sounding which caused some fatigue during loud passages. The AH fuses cost the same as SR blacks and also have a 30 day trial. I would give a call to Joseph Chow at AH. He is very knowledgeable and easy to communicate. Whether you try AH fuses or the beeswax fuses it will satisfy your curiosity. Best wishes BTW- I have nothing against SR since I own their cables, XOT, FEQ, and MIGS 2.0. |
Ronrags... i have the same perspect as you, i feel that the SR Black was kind of bright ( overly aggressive ) when the music was at a complex stage especially at high volume it was more than enough. It was a noticeable difference on each equipment from stock to AR Black, made every pieces of my equipment i put in different. The SR Red i had at first was a great fuse but the black was a tad better, especially in the highs and bass area. I had them both in my equipment and a&b comparison. But if it was on the thicker side, meatier type, it would have been perfect! Perfectpathtech...can you please elaborate more of your finding on the AM beeswax fuses. The specs sounds great ( beeswax is genius) but i want to know what characteristics does it bring before and after installing these fuses. Much appreciated! |
I must agree with ebm, fuses as are other audio accessories/components system dependent in terms of results. In my system the Synergistic Research Black fuses have contributed to a very natural sound character. Definitely no issues with brightness. I suspect that I'd be very happy with the Beeswax fuse as well based on owner feedback I've read. Charles |
zipost I found with the SHD the noise floor dropped quite a bit, dynamics expanded, another layer of micro information, bass got tighter with even deeper extension. That was trying one in the AC line to our source which is cd. The Mrs was impressed enough to ask how many more to do the system, then said said do them. They do take a while to seat in, I would say well north of 100 hrs. Major investment for us , but well worth it. |
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Here is my dilemma: I notice that with the SR Black & Red which i have on most of my equipment; I have one in the amp, preamp and cd player. Man... ever so often these fuses would blow out on me. Should i up the rating say from a 4 amp to 5 amp? Also, in regards to warranty, are the fuses cover under a 5 years warranty from Synergistic ( according to their website). I went and did a search but it only mentioned other accessories but not fuses. Any members who had the same experiences with warranty would want to help me out on this? I did call them and they stated that it's only a 30 days warranty. I am out of luck? I am not too happy with their customer services! |
zipost, I too have noticed that the SR fuses have a short fuse. So, I have increased the values of them when I purchase. I’m not sure that going from 4-5 amp is right perhaps if they have a 4.5 amp? Warrantying a fuse for a long time is really not practical when typically it is not the fuse that fails but it is a reaction to something else within our systems. ozzy |
zipost (not using your real name although we have it on file at the factory). The fuses you are now seeking replacements for were given to you free of charge as industry samples over one year ago by then employee Peter Hansen who now works at The Cable Company. Fast forward over one year. You called our factory two weeks ago and talked to Kevin seeking replacement fuses for your over one year old Black Fuses. Kevin explained to you that we do not have a Lifetime Warranty on fuses but that our fuses are covered by a 30-day no risk money back guarantee. Kevin informed me that you became rude and spoke in a raised voice despite the fact he was trying to help you, and that you hung up the phone on him after he informed you we would not replace your old fuses with new fuses. I then called Peter Hansen at The Cable Co. and he filled me on the whole story including how you misrepresented yourself as an industry insider to gain four free sample Black Fuses with a promise to include them as standard on a line of electronics you claimed to be importing very soon. Peter then told me you recently called him at The Cable Company, were similarly rude on the phone when he explained that fuses are designed to blow and therefore could not be warrantied for life, to which you told him and I quote, "Tell Synergistic Research they can suck my big fat c*#k" and then you hung up the phone on him as you did with Kevin at my factory. Now I see you are trying to stir the pot and create negative publicity for fuses you basically stole from my company and that you expect free replacements for, fuses you never paid for in the first place. But even if you had paid for them, we do not warranty fuses not to blow after over one year in service. Dear SR customers reading this unfortunate chain of events, the vast majority of people who buy our products are great people and we do everything in our power to take care of you including going above and beyond what would normally be considered reasonable. But every once in a while we get someone 'special' someone who is trying to either extort something from us, usually by threatening to give us bad publicity if we do not bend to unreasonable demands, or as is the case here, we get someone who is completely dishonest. For the record we will never bend to such demands and will do everything in our power to expose the bad players for all to see while taking care of legitimate customers with exceptional customer service and the best products we know how to build. Yours in music, Ted Denney III Lead Designer Synergistic Research Inc. |
I use and encourage all serious audiophiles to audition audio grade fuses. I find them to be a big sonic improvement in the four systems that I listen to. As early as 2012 I was trying Isoclean, Furotech, and Padis fuses. Small but real improvement. I then tried Synergistic Research SR 20 fuses and found them to be a bigger jump up in improvement then these other fuses. Reading OregonPapa's endorsement of the Synergistic Research Black fuses made me trial these newest fuses. I tried a SR Black fuse- one at a time, after cleaning old and new fuses and contacts, and in both directions. I found the SR Blacks to make a major improvement in the sound and worth the price. Doing careful listening , breaking in, changing fuse directions , and cleaning fuses was a project that took over 6 months to finish. During this time I blew two fuses during rapid swaps in warmed up equipment. First a 3.25 amp fuse in a tube amp. The designer told me to let the equipment cool off before changing tubes or fuses (Craig Uthus of Moth Audio fame). He further told me using a 4.0 amp would not decrease safety. The other fuse was a 1 amp fuse for the laser assembly of a Marantz SA11-SA2 SACD player . This fuse was swapped while the unit was on! .Both fuses were replaced by Synergistic Research under their wonderful 30 trial policy. During this same interval I also had one tube go out in the three tube amps I was using. My sincere hope for the music lovers who read these forums is that they try Audio Grade Fuses. Synergistic Research, Audio Magic, and Audio Horizons are all sold by Audiogon vendors who give the buyer a trial period. I firmly believe the time and money spent is well worth it. David Pritchard |
Reading this and other discussions on fuses has me interested in trying them again. It's been maybe eight years since I tried HiFi Tuning fuses and didn't hear much if any improvement. Those were a more basic version than the HiFi Tuning offerings today. There are now many new audiophile fuses on the market that are probably much better. |
Don’t get sucked into this snake oil Jeff, not with statements like this, it should tell you enough! I found with the SHD the noise floor dropped quite a bit, dynamics expanded, another layer of micro information, bass got tighter with even deeper extension. That was trying one in the AC line to our source which is cd. And another thing, it shouldn't be in the Tech Talk Forum, should be moved to the Misc. Forum. Cheers George |
@jeff_ss If you didn’t hear a difference before it is likely because your brain is not very open to suggestion and expectation. The only reason folks hear night and day differences is because they expect it and their minds are easily influenced by suggestion and clever marketing. Don’t waste more of your time on snake oil. BTW If ever a fuse made a difference then it is time to throw out the pos component. Why keep something so badly designed that a fuse makes an audible difference? |
So let me get this... (and this is from one who has never tried an aftermarket fuse and has never needed to replace a fuse due to a fuse working as advertised) If it doesn't work, it's You! If it works, it's the Piece of S... component! That leaves me with: All other possibilities are 'shadornefreude' (double entendre partially implied)? : ) |
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There is only one reason a >$100 boutique fuse may sound better than a quality $2 fuse. That is because the >$100 boutique is replacing a $2 fuse that is old and tired seen too many switch on cycles, making it weak and also carbon’ed up as can be seen by these time deterioration pics of the same fuse. A slow-blo ageing right to left https://peakpinball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/fuse-8312-640x426.jpg A fast-blo ageing left to right https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg%20 Your better off spending $2 on an original new fuse, and save yourself >$98 as the ageing process will happen just as fast with the >$100 fuse. Cheers George |
That would vary, on how much current is drawn through the fuse at switch on (as this is the heaviest), and how many times a day it’s turned on an off. If they’re only $2 do them every 6mts or so. https://www.digikey.com.au/products/en/circuit-protection/fuses/139?k=fuses&k=&pkeyword=fuse... Cheers George |
I just finished comparing my new Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amplifier with the factory fuse and with a Synergistc Research Blue fuse. Both fuses now have 100 hours on them and so the amp has a total of 200 hours on it. The improvement with the Synergistic Research Blue fuse is significant. david_ten : I hope you will try a Blue fuse in your system. I think it is a worthwhile experiment to undertake. If you have any questions feel free to call me. 575-644-1462 David Pritchard |
I can't believe that the usual suspects are still hawking their tired and repetitive crap about inferior power supplies and aging fuses that if designed right, would never show signs of aging. Are we all to believe that we should swap out fuses every 6 months? If so, time to get a new hobby. All the worse, Nonoise |
Are we all to believe that we should swap out fuses every 6 months?If your one of these nutz that A/B things many times a day and doing so turn your equipment on and off each time, then yes you are a candidate to change your fuses every 6mts, because of the fatigue your putting them through as in the pics in my last post. I think you need to get a new hobby. A slow-blo fatigue ageing right to left https://peakpinball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/fuse-8312-640x426.jpg A fast-blo fatigue ageing left to right https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg%20 Cheers George |
ShadorneInteresting! My experience is 180 degrees different. I hear NO differences rolling fuses in mid to low level BUT hear improvements in high level components. Same goes for cables ... Began playing with audio fuses years years ago on Sonic Frontier pre / amp and 1st generation Benchmark DAC 1 and heard no differences. Improvements are easily audible in current components. |
If it does then you imagined it or your component doesn’t even have a decent power supply. I'm aware of the controversy and positions vis a vis fuses, and I do not want to, nor mean to, inflame.... or generate the usual back and forth (like on that other thread). : ) @shadorne I am aware of @charles1dad 's system components and I submit that Israel Blume of Coincident is well aware of "decent power supplies' and utilizes decent, likely excellent, ones in his components. As Charles states in a previous post: "fuses have contributed to a very natural sound character." Are you saying he "imagined it?" Based on Charles' many excellent, informative and educational posts here on Audiogon he comes across as a Non-Hogwarts kind of guy! I'm willing to try fuses and am open to their non-impact or some-impact possibilities. @georgehifi provided some more specific and helpful information...since you have a fairly strong position on fuses not working (your exceptions noted) can you provide additional information on why I need to avoid trying them out? Thanks! |
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David, I do appreciate your comments regarding me, thanks. Joecasey’s comments above referring to the quality of components and their response to upgrade fuses mirrors mine. The higher quality audio components do in fact display a greater difference and noticeable improvement in the sound quality. David Pritchard above just reported his + findings with the Blue fuses in his new Pass Labs amplifier. I believe that this type of outcome has been the "overwhelming " rule rather than an exception. The power supplies in Coincident products are indeed excellent. As are the power supplies of the numerous brands used by many very happy upgrade fuse users who have posted on this forum. Pass Labs Audio Research VAC Atma-sphere Art Audio Concert Fidelity Absolare Shindo Vitus The list goes on. Would someone care to make the case that these established and esteemed audio products lack high quality parts and power supply and this makes them "susceptible" to upgrade fuses? This argument is absurd and is bereft of logical reasoning though some persist in repeating it to the point of boredom. Or is it simply expectation bias, really? This explanation would sufficiently account for similar results involving many individual listeners and also a wide spectrum of brands and components? Again it doesn’t pass the logic test in my opinion. There have been a few people who heard little or no benefit (this could be said for the any audio product) this is reasonable to me. A very large number of listeners have reported very favorable experiences. Charles |
@joecasey Well your experience suggests that what you regard as high level components don’t appear to be all that reliable and robust. It depends on your definition of high level - does it mean high fidelity (in which case a mere fuse should not affect the audio) or does high level mean an expensive boutique custom item that was built and tuned by ear to sound great but without an emphasis on low distortion and elimination of extraneous factors (like a mere fuse) affecting the sound quality. I am sure everyone can agree that it is actually possible to design a very robust power supply that has more than enough stored energy (for transients) that slight differences between one fuse and another won’t affect the sound. Once you accept that this can be a design goal and is easily achievable (adds only cost but presents no major technical hurdles) then it sheds a new light on components that are finicky to the point that a fuse makes a big difference.... |
shadorne It depends on your definition of high level - does it mean high fidelity (in which case a mere fuse should not affect the audio) or does high level mean an expensive boutique custom item that was built and tuned by ear to sound great but without an emphasis on low distortion and elimination of extraneous factors (like a mere fuse) affecting the sound quality. >>>>That’s not logical, Captain. We already know that distortion measurements can be deceiving. We know for example that many Tube amplifiers with say, 0.05% Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) sound MUCH BETTER than many Solid State amps with vanishingly low THD of say, 0.001%. AND some tube amps sound better than other tube amps that have lower THD. And so forth. So, the logical conclusion here is that - all things being equal - distortion is relatively meaningless. Good sound is definitely not DEFINED by very low distortion. As for me I’ll take good sound over low distortion any day. 😬 |
@geoffkait It is totally logical. There is nothing deceiving about distortion - no distortion at all means input and output are identical and that is the holy grail of high fidelity. Some distortion measurements specs may hide or ignore important aspects of distortion (odd harmonics, zero crossing distortion at low level) but that does not diminish the overal goal of ZERO distortion in a high fidelity setup. This means a high fidelity setup is not going to be audibly affected by a mere fuse - otherwise it is a real pos in terms of high fidelity! A designer/manufacturer can design primarily for an old 60’s tube sound with archaic technology and tune by ear to decide what flavour sounds the best or a designer can design primarily for high fidelity using latest technology and use measurements to prove it by testing the power supply robustness, channel separation, distortion, SNR etc. What sound is preferable? Well some prefer high fidelity (at the cost that you hear the recording as it was produced - warts and all) and some prefer euphonic glorious coloration that just presents everything in a way that sounds better than the original recording to them (at the expense of robustness, reliability, accuracy and some finicky equipment behaviours from older technology) |
ShadorneSimple, what sounds best to me. In my case, comparing old to new system is similar to Yugo vs Mercedes. Why stop at fuses, if one can hear a difference between wires, capacitors, ... then it's flawed. Totally illogical! |
@joecasey If what sounds best to you is audibly affected by a mere fuse then I wish you good luck finding the right fuse (one that matches all the wires and capacitors in your gear) and hopefully one that works long enough to be worth your effort (break in being in hundreds of hours and then the fuse aging problem with cycling - if you get lucky picking the right matching fuse then perhaps it might sound “best” for more than just a few days before needing a replacement or the wires or capacitors will need adjustment/replacement)! |
shadorne . All you can do with these snake oiler’s is present links and facts, and EE laws, and try to protect the gullible from it, they can either take it in, or choose to ignore it because they don’t understand. Because they’ve spent >$100 on a 10mm piece of resistance wire, they’re naturally they’re going to have large expectation bias when it comes in the mail. That’s when you get totally unbelievable statements like this. I found with the SHD the noise floor dropped quite a bit, dynamics expanded, another layer of micro information, bass got tighter with even deeper extension. That was trying one in the AC line to our source which is cd.And even more unbelievable, ones that say they can hear audible differences in an AC mains fuse direction of insertion!!!! Cheers George |
Yes of course there is an improvement compare to standard fuse, and you should try also to use Progold to clean the fuse ends, and their fuse holder, once a year at least. I noticed a better sound after cleaning them. By the way I am using HiFi Tuning Fuse, with fuse chip, on each of them, today the chip is included in the fuse new models. |
