Nsgarch, it is complicated and can be very frustrating. It is illegal to copy copywritten material for financial gain or to deprive the owner of the material of financial gain, thus incurring damage. The person who buys your used CD does not reimburse the owner of the copy written material, you continue to have access to the music even though you no longer have the copy written material and have incurred reimbursment from your original purchase. I do think that it is not a big deal and the record labels pursue it to much in most cases, but can you imagine if even 10% of the music listening community downloaded thier millions of CD's and put the used ones on the market, the kind of financial damage that would cause the music industry. It used to be very insignificant but now when people are getting rid of entire collections it can be big big money. i.e. 1500 cd's at $15 each is $22,500.00, and just one collection.
Besides, I listen mostly to LP's and everyone knows that everytime an LP is downloaded a Fairy dies in Neverland. |
10-10-06: S7horton
You are breaking the law when you rip the cd and THEN sell the disc. You can rip it and keep it. It's your music you paid for. But, it's when you rip it and then sell it to someone else that it is illegal. Precisely, and that's why I asked the question what law enforcement agency is going to devote resources to such a campaign? How does law enforcement prove that the CDs were sold after being ripped? They're going to devote taxpayer dollars to a sting operation to catch individual sellers of CDs? Doubtful. Thus, I believe the law has no teeth as it applies to this situation. Here's a question that pertains to the downloading issue. Let's assume someone owns no CDs and has a hard drive full of MP3s that were purchased and downloaded from iTunes. Some law enforcement agency discovers the MP3s on the person's hard drive and charges the individual with possessing illegal downloads. How does law enforcement prove the downloads were illegally obtained? How does the owner prove that the MP3s were legally purchased? Are the purchased MP3s encoded somehow to provide proof of purchase? Is the owner expected to keep receipts for the hundreds of songs he/she has downloaded? Anyway, in Gretsch6120's situation, I believe the core of the issue regarding the decision to keep or sell his CDs is one of having the material available as back-up if his computer files or drives fail. |
"Agree with Nsgarch. The audio community is replete with members who sold off their vinyl collection in favor of those shiny little discs 15-20 years ago. Many of them are now wearing "kick me hard" signs on the seat of their pants."
Spoken like an antique audio dealer. Maybe your clients are nostalgic , most of mine are glad they're gone.
And you don't have to compress you music you can copy it exactly to your music server.
See soon the idea of playing any disc will be quite foriegn.
Legally you can sell your discs and use your copies just don't give the copies to anyone else or DJ a wedding. And you won't attract any attention that could make you a test case for your position.
Ciao. |
You are breaking the law when you rip the cd and THEN sell the disc. You can rip it and keep it. It's your music you paid for. But, it's when you rip it and then sell it to someone else that it is illegal.
Regarding used cd stores: when I sell a used cd to a store, I don't own the music anymore. They can sell to someone else because it hasn't been copied. Now, does that mean used cd stores don't sell discs that have been ripped? Absolutely not. No one has any idea whether a used disc has been ripped or not. But, that alone doesn't make it legal. |
10-10-06: Edesilva
I'm not sure you can really say there is "no teeth" when the RIAA is out there suing people for downloading mp3s. Edesilva, downloading MP3s is not the issue presented in this thread. The issue raised here concerns a consumer ripping CDs he owns, and then being charged with a crime should someone decide to search his hardrive, find MP3s and then demand to see the original commercially produced CDs from which the files were ripped. Clearly, no law enforcement agency is going to devote resources to such a campaign. |
I'm not sure you can really say there is "no teeth" when the RIAA is out there suing people for downloading mp3s.
The legal issue, if I remember a prior thread on this correctly, is that the act of copying is either fair use or not, and today's copyright law tends to measure whether or not its fair use at the time the act is committed. Thus, making a copy of a disk you own is probably fair use. Making a copy of a disk you do not own is not. There is also the first sale doctrine that permits you to sell a CD you have legally acquired. Put those together and you may "legally" have the right to copy a CD you own and sell the original. I happen to think that if a judge was called upon to decide whether you not a person copying a 1.5K collection of CDs and then selling the originals was engaged in "fair use," s/he might find the copying was *not* fair use.
Regardless of the pure legality or illegality of the act, however, seems to me that fairness to the artist dictates not keeping a copy if you sell the original. |
Yea and want about used record and CD stores? Are they breaking some law by even being in business or am I breaking some law by shopping there? I don't get any of it! |
I'm having a really hard time understanding these legal issues:
First, I've always understood that it's perfectly legal to make a single copy of a CD (purchased retail) for one's own use -- whether it's on your server, iPod, optical disc or cassette.
Second, I don't think there is anything illegal about selling a CD used (originally purchased retail) and keeping the one copy you made legally. Are you supposed to destroy your legal copy if you sell the original disc used? Talk about a law with no teeth! Why do they even bother? |
S7Horton - I beleive that I am understanding their point(s), well taken at that. No, my mind is not (quite) made up at this point. Just wanted to generate discussion on an interesting subject. |
Didn't have time to revise my post above before S7horton posted.
I agree with those who suggest ripping your CDs and then storing them. If your MP3 files become corrupted, or if your hard drive(s) fail, and you don't have the CDs as back-up, then you're screwed.
Also, selling the discs may be illegal after ripping them, but it's a law with no teeth, and no desire displayed to enforce it. |
Gretsch, I think you're missing the point. No one has said that MP3 or digital files are not the wave of the futre. They are saying two things:
1. Ripping your cd's to computer and then selling the disc is illegal.
2. Hang on to your cd's. When you get older you will want to look at back at your collection of discs. |
Despite your question, and despite several of the answers recommending keeping the CDs, it seems to me that you had made your decision before you started the thread, Gretsch6120. |
Do people out there believe that it is going to come to a point that we will not be able to go to a store and purchase a CD? That we will purchase an "album" as a download only? I do believe that this will happen. I have hooked up a friends mp3 player to my system, and the results were fantastic. I could not tell the difference between the mp3 and playing the same selection on my CDP! I also find it thrilling to be able to bring my entire collection with me on a very small device. By the way, Nsgarch, I am 40 years young and have been through a few high end components, tube stuff, speakers, etc., too much to think about! Anyone interested in purchasing a CD collection :>) |
I'd probably do this:
1) Rip the CDs to FLAC (*lossless* compression) and store on a series of big drives. USB external drives are crazy cheap right now and getting cheaper.
2) Store the CDs or sell them as needed.
3) Use a LinkSys Wireless MusicBridge and WinAmp to playback the lossless files thru your home system.
-RW-
Yes, you can have your cake and eat it, too... |
Agree with Nsgarch. The audio community is replete with members who sold off their vinyl collection in favor of those shiny little discs 15-20 years ago. Many of them are now wearing "kick me hard" signs on the seat of their pants. |
I'm not sure I agree with Davt's legal interpretation, but notwithstanding, I think you should do your MP3 transfer for now and just put the CDs in dead storage. For 2 reasons:
1.) You won't get that much for them. You'll get a buck apiece as a collection. Unless you want to sell them individually and your time isn't worth anything.
2.) You sound like a young person, so take a tip from an old person: the time WILL come when you'll wish you had kept them because they will have acquired new meaning/value for you (and some of them will possibly have become collector's items.)
Get some plastic (poly-cardboard) CD storage boxes cheap from Bags Unlimited and put 'em away. You'll be glad you did. Unfortunately I won't be here for you to thank me ;--)
Oh yeah, store the CDP too, if it's something decent.
. |
Depending on which country you are in, you may be breaking the law. |
If you sell the CD's then legally you cannot play the music you downloaded. Falls into the same category of borrowing CD's to download. I know that this may not bother some, but it is one of the reasons to hold onto the collection. Another would be if a new better system was developed for downloading, computers seem to change often. |
