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tube vs SS my own little test

So last weekend I went to a audio show at my local dealer. But alas the dealer was sick so. I a distributor filled in for him. I have know for a few years.

So we started chatting. Last few years I have been changing/upgrading my set little by little. Different speakers, turntable, phono amp. However my integrated amp stayed. My amp is a Symphonic Line La musica. So out of curiosity I asked him what do you think. I my amp still up to it.

To which he answered, I don't know. Why don't you borrow an amp from the shop and find out. So I went home with an Octave V110 and an Octave Super Black Box.

So how do they compare? Well the difference is different from what I expected. I have never owned a tube amp, or any tube gear for that matter. The Octave is a push pull pentode tube amp. This particular V110 comes with KT150 tubes instead of the KT120 tubes which the V110 normally has. Since I know nothing of tube I have no clue what that means to the sound.

Back to the sound. First I was disappointed a bit. It didn't sound that good. a Bit lack luster. And no "magical" tube mids that I have read about. The SL was more punchy, better controlled bass, and the mids and high were not that different.

However that changed after some time. Me knowing nothing of tubes didn't know that it can take up to an hour for the tube to completely warm up or something. because after about 30 minutes the amp sounds a lot better and after an hour even better still.

The SL was still a bit more dynamic and maybe still had a little more bass power. But after an hour the Octace mids and highs are clearly superior. Not that the SL is bad by any standard. But the Octave sounds more organic for lack of better wording.

But how practical is an amp that needs close to an hour to warm up? How typical is that of tube amps? Since to me I think it would be a deal breaker. I do not always have the time sometimes I just have 20 minutes.

Do hybrid integrated amps tube pre/SS power suffer from the same "shortcoming"?

Coming days I'll listen some more and see if I can find more differences.
mordante
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greginnh
320 posts
 
My tube amp reaches the sweet spot after 45 minutes. My Class A SS amp takes about 15 minutes.
xti16
1,495 posts
 
Mordante I had the KT120's for a short time in the V110. I personally did not like them at all. I liked the Ei KT90's in high power the most overall. But that said a lot depended on which speakers I was driving. With the Dyn C1 Sigs the KT120's were horribly shouty where the original Tung Sol 6550 solid black plate (in low power) sounded best. With Raidho D1's and later the D2's the TS were too warm and mushy sounding. The KT120 was a better but still not my cup of tea. Never tried the KT150's but the Ei KT90 sounded good with Dyn's and even better with Raidho's. Don't forget the little tubes 12ax7 and 12at7's make a difference too. Mullards are warm sounding and paired well with the Dyn's but not so well with the Raidho's. There I preferred the Gec CV6091's with a Telefunken ecc801.

But that is the beauty of tubes. If you want to change up the sound a bit just swap some tubes.
mordante OP
511 posts
 
After some additional testing I can say the following:

1) Octave V110+SSB sound better compared to my Symphonic Line La Musica, but not by a huge margin. But better none the less.

2) Octave V110 without the SSB sounds equal but different compared to the SL

3) If I really want to upgrade I should may look at the V80SE or maybe a SL Karquelle/kraftwerk.

List prices
Octave V110 6250 euro
Octave Super Black Box 2500 euro
Symphonic Line La Musica 6080euro
xti16
1,495 posts
 
The V80 has better output transformers. Also the little tubes are easier to swap if you get into tube rolling. A friend had the V80 when I owned the V70se. I couldn't tell the difference in sound but he has different speakers and his room is a lot better than mine. I traded my V110 just when Octave announced the V80SE.

Best of luck with whatever you decide
tubegroover
2,279 posts
 
Mordante I recently heard the SL Kraftwerk Integrated w/MC, the SS job at my dealer's. Now that is a REALLY nice integrated unit that I feel confident I could live with long term mated with the right speaker. Very refined and natural presentation and certainly much better than some seriously more expensive SS designs I've listened to.
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