Tubed Pre match with a Spectron Musician IIISE?

Radicalsteve, I have to say I'm a bit confused with your most recent threads regarding Spectron and ARC REF3 pre combo saying "As to the Ref 3 I am assuming it is purely an impedance miss-match or such."

I found a thread of yours posted on 04-18-08 that said;

Title was Spectron Musician 3 First Impressions?

"The Spectron is a good match with my ARC Ref3; it runs ridiculously cool, no noise, total control top to bottom, but it is not lush, it does not color the signal and it is remarkably effortless driving my Apogees, very quiet driving my Raven/Focal hand-built MTM's. If I had to sum up so far, it has poise, clarity, definition and gives a confidence that it delivers the most musical response from whatever you feed into it. Just be aware that it will highlight any deficiencies in your system or your room acoustics."

and there was no such mention of this and then I read on 11-30-08 in this thread where you say you replaced the Audio Research Ref3 because it was sounding "very bright and hard." while paired up with the Spectron's.

I now read your latest thread today you saying;

"I have also had to add new Y-cables and different speaker connections and a new power cord set up"

Radicalsteve, I was trying to get a feel for your system consisted of especially due to the fact you having a REF3 pre which I currently have and had asked what it consisted of a couple of times but didn't get a reply back so I did some reading of your past threads and found you are using Apogee Stages, Raven/Focal hand-built MTM's.

I received a couple of personal emails saying they own the AR REF3 paired up these same Spectron amps and the sound they are getting is not "very bright or hard" as you put it.

Can you clarify, thanks.

Dev, I will try to be succinct. The Spectron is a very revealing amp; my first one replaced tube Sonic Frontier Power 3's and the increased clarity was obvious from day 1. Over about 500 hours the amp settled in to become clear, open, coherent and presentation was the most lucid I have heard in my system. As time went on I found that as the Spectron opened up, there were was a degree of stridency I was previously unaware of in combination with the REF 3.

During this time I did change my speakers as well to another self-built design based on the GR Research OBI 7's, which are dipoles and also extremely transparent and lively. When I exchanged the REF 3 for my Line 3 (I owned both at the same time) I was able to compare directly and the difference was immediately obvious and I could not go back to the REF 3 without feeling it was edgy, brittle etc in comparison to the Line 3 which has always been a great controlled neutral pre and suddenly the Line 3 becomes really alive and the REF 3 is over the top for me in my system.

I truly believe the REF 3 IS A WORLD CLASS PREAMP, but as the Spectron found its groove, the REF 3 seemed out of place. I now believe my Line 3 has a much better match as the music just flows - not a highly quantitative assessment I agree, but emotionally I have a clear preference. Since the REF 3 goes for 2 X the $ of the Line 3, I sold it. Based on my experience I would tend to recommend a preamp for the Spectron that is "smooth and neutral"" (whatever that means) versus one that is forward and bold. The ARC house sound has not shifted that much over the years and there are many comments here on that - BTW, I am still a big fan. I know Simon likes the BAT gear to with the Spectron and now I see (hear) why. If I was looking at SS, based on my limited experience I would choose a Sim Audio P7 or P8 rather than a Classe for example. I hope you get the drift.

So much depends on other system components it really is hard to compare. I tend to use silver IC cables for example because I favor an open transparent, energetic sound, rather than a bloomy, softer sound. Most of all I value coherence and tonality and I don't like a smeared or distorted sound such as SE Triodes - that should trigger a couple of flames!

As to changing PC's and speaker cabling etc; that is inevitable when you go from stereo to a monoblock configuration as I have just done. I should add that in the stereo mode I used the remote sense cables, no idea if that had any impact on the REF 3 presentation.

Steve

Hi Radicalsteve, thanks for clarification of your experience.

Reading your most recent post here there seems to be allot going on with your over all system, many different factors coming into play.

Your IC's you mention that are silver, what manufacturer are they and connection?

I have owned and tried a few top notch contenders (VTL 7.5 / McIntosh 1000 just to name) and most defiantly there are different flavours but to date I have never experienced my REF3 to be forward and bold sounding, wondering if something was wrong with yours. I have brought my pre over to many others to hear and will say that it was not always my preference in their set-up but never did it sound the way you put it which just has me puzzled.

If you were a little closer it would be so easy, we could just insert it within your set-up I would be able to hear what you are describing first hand.

I just want others who are reading this to know my reasoning is to educated, I was looking at getting some Spectrons for myself but have now put a hold until I hear.

I will say in all honesty that after reading "Dob's" latest listening experience with Joule that is where I'm headed, it's not the first time I have heard what he was describing and their new pre-amp is suppose to be a really nice pce.

Look forward to your on going thoughts while your Spectron's continue to break-in along with your cables.

Hello Steve,

" I know Simon likes the BAT gear to with the Spectron and now I see (hear) why"

Indeed, for a long time, REX by BAT was my most favorite preamp.
However, now, I am trying to assist Jud Barber of Joule-Electra to build, that I believe, will be "the best" preamplifier in the world. He builds it in the memory of his late wife Marianne What Jud is trying to achieve is that you will not notice if preamp edgy or not, smooth, showing this or that - only that you will have emotional connection to the music.

When I first time heard the prototype (with pair of Spectron monoblocks) we placed Mozart Requiem and I am rather mature if not old, nor sentimental for sure, person - I felt the tears were coming from my eyes. So at first I was ashamed a bit by showing emotional side of me but later on I understood (again and again) that the true music is all about emotions - you simple do not notice if high are silky or not, if bass is fleshed out etc. What you should have is only feelings and being unable to stop listening to music. Familiar tracks, now grab you and don't let go.

To show this and yet be as much accurate in representation of real acoustic music is the true challenge for the audio designer (the same challenge I had when we moved from standard Musician III (when I joint the company) to Signature and later to Mk2) and its outside of the scope of this thread.

Thank you
Simon

FYI. I sent Joule an email (standard address from their website) asking about availability and pricing, etc. Simon responded. :) He works for/with Joule. He said it's being debuted at CES, as he mentioned already here. Just an FYI.
Ted