Turntable got absolutely crushed by CD


Long story short, i've just brought home a VPI classic 1 mounted with a Zu-Denon DL103 on JMW Memorial 10.5 with the appropriate heavier counterweight. Had everything dialed in..perfect azimuth, VTF, overhang, with only a slightly higher than perfect VTA. Levelling checked. All good. 

I did a comparison between the VPI and my Esoteric X03SE and it's not even close. The Esoteric completely crushes the VPI in all regards. The level of treble refinement, air, decay, soundstage depth and width, seperation, tonality, overall coherence is just a simply a league above from what I'm hearing from the VPI. The only area the VPI seems to be better at is bass weight, but not by much. 

I'm honestly quite dumbfounded here. I've always believed that analogue should be superior to digital. I know the Esoteric is a much pricier item but the VPI classic is supposed to be a very good turntable and shouldn't be a slouch either. At this point I feel like I should give up on analogue playback and invest further in digital. 

Has anyone had a similar experience comparing the best of digital to a very good analogue setup?

Equipment:
Esoteric X03SE 
VPI Classic, JMW Memorial 10.5, Zu-DL103
Accuphase C200L
Accuphase P600
AR 90 speakers

Test Record/CD:
Sarah McLachlan - Surfacing (Redbook vs MOV 180g reissue)



chadsort
Whoopycat

A little harsh and extreme there but funny in a way.

Yes lots of possible reasons but so far as stated by many members, many times.

1/ likely the phono stage has sucked the life out of the cartridge by its very limited loading options . Beg, borrow or steal a separate phono with multiple loading options to test this theory.

2/ No actual confirmation yet but it does sound like the OP is basing this off just one vinyl/cd comparison. Needs to try a lot more older known excellent pressings to get a more subjective viewpoint.

Have fun!
Whoopycat, you wouldn't know a good sound if it... hang on, only kidding!
Actually totally agree. Records are a drag but I've only been moved to tears by vinyl. Maybe it was all the surface noise!
Hi,
be patient with your record player and you will be rewarded. Normally a new player takes some time to get used to, then adjust it properly and there it is. Analogue takes time.
It will jump out, you will notice the difference when you are nearly there, till you get the correct spot.
The better cartridge will just complete the picture.

Hi Chadsort.

I’m not going to try solving your problem for you, as I don’t have the expertise with turntables others have. Though I’m a long time audiophile and have owned a turntable for many years, it’s only very recently that I dove in with much seriousness into higher end vinyl playback.

And since you asked about people’s experience comparing digital to vinyl playback, that’s what I’ll respond to.

(BTW trying to answer if one has used the "best of digital" playback is always going to be contentious and somewhat subjective, where one can always hear retorts "THAT DAC or CD player isn’t great, this OTHER one is great!" So I’ll just state I use a Benchmark DAC. If it’s good enough for the pro market, it’s good enough for me...though I’ve also owned high end Meridian CD players and DACS)

We have to be careful not to fall for audiophile hype, as it tends to be mostly subjective. When we hear things like "vinyl CRUSHED the CD in sound quality" that’s pretty much someone’s subjective opinion, not some objective fact that entails we will agree. And, of course, you can always bet that you’ll hear from other audiophiles that, if you don’t agree their most beloved format sounds great, then they’ll point to some flaw in your equipment or set up. (Or worse...your faulty hearing. It’s always "your gear, or your ears.")


To that end, I’ve never been down on digital at all, and have mostly used digital playback since the early 90’s. Loved it. It does help no doubt that I "sweeten" things somewhat with tube amplification, but when vinyl fanatics say silly things like "digital is just wrong, it doesn’t sound natural, it can’t provide true musical satisfaction" they are just speaking of their own biases. I’ve loved my digital playback for decades, including getting in to ripping my CDs to stream them, and Tidal streaming.

As for turntables:

For many years I owned a nice Micro Seiki turntable given to me by my father-in-law. I’d used it occasionally to dip in to some of the records I’d kept from my collection (I’m 55). I was always taken aback by how enjoyable the sound was. It did not sound as accurate as the digital sources, but it had the classic warmth and texture, spaciousness etc that made it a really nice place to visit.

As the "vinyl revival" gathered pace, I couldn’t help notice all the wonderful albums, both old and re-issued, and new, that was being released, and often with really beautiful aesthetics in art and design. So I started buying more vinyl. And at some point it made sense to look at upgrading my turntable. (Because...hey...that’s what we do here).

Once I did upgrade my analog front end - a nice phono stage, and trading my Micro Seiki for a sturdy, serious Transrotor magnetic drive turntable, with a far better cartridge thrown in the deal, that turned a corner for me.

I’d never heard vinyl sound so quiet in terms of background noise. Nor so smoothly detailed and clear. Where my previous turntable set up had a "warmth" it tended towards a constant coloration, and a slight homogenizing of the sound with that pleasant coloration. The upgraded system revealed more tonal nuance, accuracy, realism, subtlety and range. So what I was getting now was a sound that retained the general virtues I liked in vinyl - that analog ease, richness and warmth, but with a clarity and lack of noise that was more similar to the virtues of digital.I found it astonishing how I could hear so clearly into any mix on a decent record, how low in distortion it sounded. There was more of "hearing a master tape" vibe listening to good vinyl, with that combo of warmth, ease AND amazing clarity and detail.

So now I actually tend to prefer listening to vinyl over my digital source. I don’t think, generally speaking, that the vinyl is technically better. Only that the set up I have now seems to have a beautifully balanced combination of the artifacts that make vinyl sound appealing while providing an amazing sense of insight into the recording that I’m used to with digital.

It’s just a subjective take, not "one is better than the other" and I still really like my digital source in terms of sound quality. But records are more satisfying and fun to play as well.

One issue, as it seems you are experiencing, is that it DOES take a while to dial things in right. Near the beginning the sound I had was a bit on the thin side. Later a bit too lush. Finally I got a nice balance where I can stop fiddling. Most of this had to do with finding the right vertical tracking force combined with choosing the right impedance for my cartridge. My phono stage allows convenient front-panel switching between impedance and I take advantage of this. Sometimes I like the impedance a click lower than strictly accurate, as it can make the sound a bit more spacious, rich and lush. Most of the time I have it so the tonal balance sounds like a match for my digital sources (as a benchmark of accuracy).

Having compared a number of digital versions to LP versions, most of my preferences go toward the LP versions. Talk Talk’s Right Of Spring album, for instance, came out with a new master session on both CD and LP several years back. Comparing back to back, my LP sound gives me all the detail I hear from the CD version, but with that slightly more compelling textural, tonal presence that seems to make things a bit more present, the speakers seem to "disappear" a bit more. This is generally the case when I compare the LP vs digital. Though I have had some cases where the digital was clearly "better" in terms of accuracy, and even showing more detail, separation, information. And yet even in those cases, where the LP wasn’t showing me as much info, there was still some aspects of richness and presence that let me enjoy the LP as well.

So, that’s my story.


I certainly agree with others that, especially as you’ve already sunk some time and cost in to vinyl playback, it’s worth sticking with it, because it really does take some time to get right...or at least to nudge towards the sound you find most pleasurable.




MC cartridges are high-current/low-voltage devices. The best way to change that low-voltage to a level sufficient to drive a phono stage (while keeping noise low) is with a transformer (inherently lower noise floor than an active stage). And keep the IC from the SUT to preamp as short as possible. Use a ground wire from your tonearm to the SUT and another ground wire (any length) from SUT to the preamp.