Yes I'm into vinyl to the extent that I no longer care for CD's; only use them to determine what records to buy. An entry level table is a waste of money.
I would not advise anyone to get into vinyl, because of the headache and expense. I was collecting records long before CD, consequently I had a bunch. For a long time I was exclusively CD; but since I already owned LP's, I decided to see what the fuss was about.
Let me clarify, the fuss is "only" in high end analog, not in the "mid fi" we used before CD; that's why all the controversy. CD's are better than "mid fi" any day of the week.
If you don't have records, why bother with the headache and expense; the very best digital is just a shade shy of high end Analog.
The bottom line in Analog is; "You have to run with the big dogs or stay at home"!
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If you have no passion for records why do you need a turntable?
It’s never too late to start, but it’s not about quality as much as you may think (especially with entry level turntable), it’s about record collecting, digging, it’s more like a life style, an expensive hobby. If you can invest into a decent analog system then you will understand why it’s so much better in terms of quality too, but do not expect that from any cheap turntables. You gotta love this media format first (it’s a culture), do you have any reason to pay more for the music on vinyl that you can buy cheaper (or to have for free) in digital ?
Do you want to own an original pressing (vinyl) or all you need is digital copy in high resolution?
I don’t care about digital, the music i love i want to have on vinyl. |
It's all good! Get yourself a turntable set up and enjoy! |
My vinyl rig mostly blows my CD and Tidal Hi-fi streaming away.
Mostly.
It depends on the recording.
Some of my vinyl is crap. Most of it is decent and some is fan-freakin-tastic.
It’s the great recordings that maintain my interest in the gear. It’s the history of my collection and deep emotional ties to the music that maintains my interest in playing vinyl.
The rig is so good at extracting the music that I don’t even hear the clicks and pops, and even if I do, I don’t mind. It's not inexpensive and it helps to know what you are doing.
All it takes is for one song, late at night, when all is quiet, to make you shed a tear, or weep, to know vinyl is worth it.
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I remember a few years back I was in the situation of Getting back into vinyl, had all Krell gear, amps, CD player etc.
I bought a cheap Project TT ( debut I think) about $300 .
I also recall being deeply disappointed in the sound ... Lol.
Lofi or even midfi is probably not going to cut it.
Sold that Project pdq and held off for a while until the itch resurfaced. Then I did a lot more research and ended up with a Clearaudio TT that although not top flight did give me encouragement.
Now my main TT is a Nottingham Spacedeck cw Scheu Analog MC SL cart through a Goldnote ph10 phono.
With good vinyl it really sings ( pun intended). But there is a heck of a lot more $ in it now than my first attempt.
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So how much are you guys spending on a turntable rig that rivals say $5000 worth of DAC and streamer? I suspect quite a bit more and that's the issue I'm finding myself in these days. I love vinyl from its historical meaning and connection to me. I particularly enjoy collecting 1st pressings of 50s and 60s jazz knowing that I'm holding a piece of history and of limited quantity. But...my vinyl rig is quite modest and it cant come close to touching a good quality DAC. I just don't have the appetite to spend like $10K on a rig to get my vinyl to sound as good as my streaming. But I will still occasionally pick up new records because of the connectedness I feel with them, not due to a sonic benefit and I'm learning to be ok with that. I wish dollar for dollar that vinyl sounded as good as digital but it just doesn't sadly. |
I also love older analog jazz and blues records from the 60s and 70s.
My table comes in around $6k all in. Plus $2k for a phono amp. Within its limits, it’s one of the best sounding rigs I’ve ever heard! |
I always suggest an 'attention test' if you listen to your digital casually how long till you think about work or the day or reach for your phone?.
Now for when you listen to records?
For me there is an obvious difference.
Yes analog wins for me. If it doesn't for you move on :)
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With the above said, what’s so great about Vinyl in your view? On a well set-up rig, the sound is full and natural sounding (i.e. there are no jarring frequency peaks & the phasing is good) and extended on both ends of the spectrum.But then, you already have that - or should if your digital rig is set up correctly! I have a large library of songs from HDTracks that are at least 24bit / 48khz and honestly I cannot tell a difference once they hit 24 bit / 96khz Since you already have excellent content, why on earth add another source where you have no content at all? Instead, why not just invest in a better dac / reclocker-regenerator / cable combo... Best! |
Anything Audio vs Anything Audio & What’s so great? = endless variables & subjectivity/opinions. |
“Since you already have excellent content, why on earth add another source where you have no content at all? Instead, why not just invest in a better dac / reclocker-regenerator / cable combo”.
That’s the best advice so far....I held off the the temptation of owning vinyl rig for the very same reason. Instead, I chose to better my CD and digital playback system.
It doesn’t make you any less passionate or collector of music if you don’t own Vinyl. I own plenty of SACD and remastered XRCD’s that sounds just as good as Vinyl in my system, YMMV. |
I own high-end vinyl and digital equipment. Several years ago vinyl sounded better than digital however with modern technology in my opinion digital has caught and sounds great. As others have said if you don't already own a large collection of LP's save your money and enjoy what you already have. If I had it to do all over again I would pass on the expenditure of vinyl equipment and LP's. |
Since you are mainly interested in convenience then you should just stick with what you know. Vinyl is more for people who love music. |
“Vinyl is more for people who love music.”
Thanks for humoring us.......LMAO!!!! 😂 🤣😂 |
"Since you already have excellent content, why on earth add another source where you have no content at all? Instead, why not just invest in a better dac / reclocker-regenerator / cable combo... Best!"
Yup, I agree. This is the best advice. Thanks to all who has responded. From all the response so far, it seems like turntables are really for people who have a predisposition to love records, either because you guys already have a large collection, or because you could relate to it. While there might be some level of sonic differences, a larger part appears to be personal preference and the emotional aspect of it. For someone like me who’s never touched a turntable in my life, I should probably just stick to what I know best. Thanks again! |
If you like acoustic music vinyl is better , for rock and pop is irrelevant .
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@angelgz2 - YEP! Happy listening! |
Dear @angelgz2 : That's the best way to go for you.
Btw, @schubert : "
If you like acoustic music vinyl is better... ""
that was true in the past but today digital is superior alternative no matters what and remember that the human beens listen not in analog way but digital due that at our inner ears ( that's where we " hera " any sound. ) exist an ADC.
Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,
R. |
We hear with our ears but need to interpret what we hear with our whole brain. The ''classical'' nature- nurture question. One need only to listen to whatever Chinese opera to grasp the difference. Description of our ''inner ears'' will not do. Certainly not Kantian '' imperatives'' in their Mexican form. |
Certainly not Kantian '' imperatives'' in their Mexican form @nandric, what are you on about?? AFAIK, Immanuel never travelled to Mexico :)
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FLASH, we listen to music with our brain , our ears just work for brain .IF you have listened to a large number of acoustic concerts , which no rocker has , Brain will give you sound based upon memory .and that memory will be acoustic ,
Tha'ts how a conductor in his 90's who can't hear 5k on a machine testcan correct a player at 12K . I have seen them do it .
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and memory is emotion which is electrochemical... |
@schubert , Thanks! I was wondering about those (very) old conductors also. Even more about my own sensitivity for the high frequencies because I hear nothing above 10Khz. BTW Kant's (aka German) ''moral philosophy'' was translated in Spanish and by some curious accidence imported in Mexico. |
but even tho the OP seems to have settled on the digital path, I see value in extension of the thread past silly generalizations....very much possible to build an emotionally satisfying digital system....I spent many years doing that...as well as investing in high speed tape and eventually relatively high end vinyl to understand deeply relative merits and faults...a prudent investment in vinyl may make you much more appreciatve of the subtle differences and more apprecitive of the strengths of digital done very well.
for example a BASIS 1400 on an HRS base with a Lyra Delos or Benz Glider into a NOVa II can be quite good in the range of $6K....
invest similar sums in a high speed half track Revox B-77 and 8 Tape Project of similar tapes and see what is possible with that format...
your milage may vary..but be certain to enjoy the music.. |
3 easy payments,
For 5K spent on turntable, tonearm, cartridge, and phono stage, and a willingness to consider used equipment (or maybe even if you stick to new), you can easily equal or surpass a 5K digital front end. It all depends upon you as listener.
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Yes it is very possible to build a emotional satisfying digital system but many times more expensive to build one even close to the real deal,analog .
nandric , one of the most in demand conductors in the world is the American born Swede , Herbert Blomstedt . His concerts for the remainder of this month are,
Feb 21, 22, 23 Cleveland Orchestra
Feb 28, New York Philharmonic
The maestro is 92 .
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@schubert The British speaker producer Bowers&Wilkins introduced as first ''super tweeter'' . The general opinion than was that there is no sense to produce speakers with higher frequency than 14 Khz. Their super tweeter started by 14 Khz but could be switched of and on . By their testing they used ''old people'' as ''test panel'' which was capable to hear when the super tweeter was on and off. |
@lewm Thanks for weighing in. I very well may tackle an upgraded TT system in the next couple of years since I'm hearing feedback like yours and @noromance indicating a $5K -$7K setup could yield analog results on par with digital in the same price range. |
I have an emotionally satisfying digital player. It is satisfying in every way - except that within an hour I always turn it off.
Not so with my analogue system. |
@schubert , you write:
Tha'ts how a conductor in his 90's who can't hear 5k on a machine testcan correct a player at 12K . I have seen them do it .
With greatest respect, could you elaborate? The highest fundamental analogue note that I know of is about 5 KHz, so ... ? I don't understand. |
From all the response so far, it seems like turntables are really for
people who have a predisposition to love records, either because you
guys already have a large collection, or because you could relate to it.
While there might be some level of sonic differences, a larger part
appears to be personal preference and the emotional aspect of it.
@angelgz2
In most cases a turntable will sound better than anything streamed. This is because streamed files, even though 192KHz, may not have any more information than the 16 bit CDs because the master file was not used. LPs are far more likely to have used a file closer to the original than even a commercially released CD! This is because CDs and other digital formats have the expectation of being played in a car and so are compressed as a result. LPs don't have that expectation. I run an LP mastering operation, and when working with a digital master, we always make sure its not the file mastered for digital release. We get the one that is unprocessed- it sounds better. LPs have a number of advantages over digital formats even to this day. Since the late 1950s, the record side has always had bandwidth out to well past 40KHz. That helps improve the perception of the soundstage due to reduced phase shift. LPs have less or no aliasing at all. This is important- aliasing is a form of distortion which the ear/brain system perceives as a brightness - 'crisp' is of then term when its really bad. This is a major reason why LPs are so much more relaxed. So these things are not taste issues. Digital just isn't there - yet. BTW- one of the better deals in turntables these days is the new Technics SL-1200G, which looks like the SL1200s on Craigslist but is actually a whole new design from the ground up and is one of the most speed stable turntables made anywhere. |
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Thanks @atmasphere for pointing out that (some) vinyl may actually be a superior format after all. Despite the dissenters who've never heard higher-end vinyl reproduction, it's an affirmation that there is something tangibly and qualitatively better with vinyl. |
I have over 100K digital files and it is great to be able to peruse the library and pick from the litter, or to even pick from many 100's of thousands via Qobuz or Tidal but.........having very recently gotten into Vinyl I am absolutely loving it.
True Story, I wear an Apple Watch everyday but my F.P. Journe Chronometre Bleu is so much better to look at.....SO MUCH BETTER. Price comparison is equal here.
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