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Why SACD,DVD-A are already DEAD

I think it's time to really look at this issue as it stands today,in a clear rational way that takes into account the varied market forces which are the true determinates for any new formats sucess or failure.
SACD IS ALREADY DEAD PERIOD!
Why you ask?Well for the following reasons:
1.It's been about 2-3 years since the introduction of SACD and look at position it's in, in terms of SOFTWARE AVAILIBILITY and MASS MARKET AWARENESS.
Take the pathetic lack of titles,not only that, but look at the artists that are chosen as SACD releases,Yo Yo Ma,Kind of Blue,(for the upteenth time)Muddy Waters etc,etc.This is no reflection on the artists but only on their limted MASS MARKET APPEAL.Who was the marketing genius who decided to re-issue this material to captivate and generate a MASS INTEREST to this new format.You need a MASS MARKET BASE for any medium to succeed.
2.As has been stated before in other forums(stereophile for one) why would the average person shell out $25 HARD EARNED DOLLARS for one of these titles?Why?What are the advantages to the average listerner.it COSTS more,it's an artist in a speciality genre comparatively speaking(jazz,blues,classical vs. pop,rock,techno)it offers no physical advantage in terms of storage,packaging,and not only that it requires a NEW player!
If you wanted to consciously destroy this new format you could'nt have done a better job than Sony has already done.
3.Given the current state of the music industry ,their major concern right now is to halt the proliferation of the MP3.What major label is going to go out and spends tons of $ on P&A(publicity,advertising)and also re-tooling their cd manufacturing plants to output SACD'S as efficently as CD'S?Right now their is NO MASS MARKET AWARENESS of SACD,it's a fact ,we live in the hermetically sealed world of the audiophile culture.Most people don't even know about HDCD,GOLD CD'S,MOBILE FIDELITY DISC'S!
Look at the history of the 8 track tape,dat,mini disc,beta and you will see that SACD is right on track for a quick burial.
3.In order to suceed you need a medium that offers a clear cut advantage over the existing technology.Other than some sonic advantages(even that's not a slam dunk as many would suppose)What does the average person get besides A HIGHER PRICED CD?
5.For those of you who have purchased these players
thinking that if the SACD revolution doesn't occur then at least I have a player that does cd's better than most players,well you're probably right in that it will out perform an AVERAGE player.But think about it ,Sony is making a player to maximize their new format NOT the CD.There will be some compromise on the cd playback chain, As the price of the SACD player drops so will the manufacturers concern with producing great sounding cd playback.Parts,build quailty will most definetly suffer.
DVD-A IS ALREADY DEAD PERIOD!
Why you ask?Well for the following reasons:
1.Again it's basically MARKET AWARENESS,SOFTWARE AVAILIBILTY AND THE COST OF THE DVD.
2.Why would the AVERAGE person buy a dvd-a disc for $25 and ignore theCHEAPER CD VERSION!.Well if that person owns a terrific sounding surround set-up then sure that person will most probably buy one,but that person doesn't represent the mass market.Sure DVD video has had tremendous growth but it's the video (movies)that'sdriving the market not the ability to play music.My theory is that dvd -a won't take off for basically the same reasons that SACD won't.MASS MARKET AWARENESS,COST OF DISC,COST OF CREATING A SURROUND SETUP FOR MUSIC,COST OF GETTING A DVD-A PLAYER.Since dvd is already in place as an excellent video playback medium,I think the cost of the disc will be a major hurdle for the average person.Watermarking will be the hump for the audiophile,besides the fact that the proper engineeering of these surround disc's will be crucial to audiophile acceptance of this format.Idon't think either of these issues will be resolved in the near future,or even at all.
WHAT SHOULD YOU DO NOW?
1.The current technology for cd players and cd engineering has progressed significantly in the past 3 years.My advise is to buy a good high end cd player right now!There are plenty to chose from ,be prepared to spend $3-$6 grand,but also be prepared to hear your cd's sound GREAT not good but really ,really GREAT!
Let's face it life is short ,the players are out there, start listening and buy one(no I'm not a manufacturer or salesperson)and start enjoying the hundreds or thousands of cd's you already own.
To all those vinylphiles,I think you face similiar problems.limted software,mass market REJECTION.and old technology which needs a significant $ expenditure for great sound,not to mention the care and maintance required to keep these puppies sounding tick and pop free. I think of vinylphiles as one would think of vintage car hobbists,it's cool if you don't mind the fuss(I doI think the old maxim that lp's sound better than cd's is becoming meaningless.good lp on good system =good sound. good cd on good system= good sound.Ironically I think vinyl will prevail over sacd and dvd-a,it's a small club but it has a history behind it that will guarantee it's longevity.
So IMO cd's and vinyl for quite some time ,both require some cash outlay for a really good playback but it's the NOW and that NOW will be around for at least the next 10 years.
joeavid
edle
235 posts
 
As we already know, the the regular CD format is only about 20 years old(roughly). Then came the so-called SACD. How long will SACD last? From what going on in the digital field(it is basically computer technology), it might be already outdated since some other "far better format" is brewing right now.
It took me a long time to collect some of my favourite CDs. I don't want to do that again and buying the same title in SACD format(I don't think I can find it in SACD format).
When I compare any digital format to my analog turntable system, they both sound horrible. The best thing is that the LP format is roughly 80 to 90 years old and it won't obsolete..............
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audiotomb
1,059 posts
 
nice post

SACD RIP, who wants the same limited titles available when cd's first roamed the earth

once again Sony fails to learn from BETA-MAX
maybe they can start selling typewriters to college students?

DVD-A - a limited future, the video market will get people buying the inexpensive combo players which are better than their cheap cd systems. must expand the titles available and bring the prices down soon

LP - withstands time but in a small scale

cd - long life with upsampling and remastering improving things further (treat yourself to a new dac)

tom
sdcampbell
2,136 posts
 
I have no fundamental disagreement with the premise -- I haven't spent a dime on either SACD or DVD-A because the format war hasn't been resolved. (A similar logic applies for me to the whole 6.1, 7.1, 10.2, etc., approach to home theater. I have a very good 5.1 system that works just dandy in my home, and until the storage medium for video sees a quantum jump, I can't see any sense in just buying more speakers and more amps.) Of the two formats, DVD-A has the greater likelihood of mass market acceptance, simply because it is more compatible with DVD-V playback.

The other cogent point that has not gotten discussed is that both SACD and DVD-A may soon be obsolete due to the next leapfrog in optical storage medium technology: fluorescent multilayer disks (FMD). FMD has many layers (up to about 100, as I recall) and uses a dichroic dye that has a very short fluorescing time, which acts like an on-off switch when illuminated by a laser beam. The chief advantage of MFD's is that they can store a vastly larger amount of data than either SACD or DVD-A, and thus offer much greater potential for high definition video recording (to say nothing of audio). The theoretical data storage limit for FMD, as I understand it, is roughly equivalent to 470 CD's (at the theoretical maximum of 100 layers and 300 gigabytes). The technology for FMD already exists, and may appear in consumer products in several years. So, we may soon see the launch of a much-superior storage medium that will make SACD and DVD-A largely irrelevant. (For more info about FMD's, there was a very good article on this technology in Widescreen Review magazine, issue 55.)

The only quarrel I have is with Joe's suggestion to buy a $3-6K CD player. To my mind, it makes much better sense to buy a good CD transport and an excellent separate DAC unit that can be upgraded as necessary. Frankly, given the state of the format wars right now, I couldn't advise anyone to buy a top-end standalone CD deck.

I also agree that vinyl is a format that appeals mainly to those who already own a lot of vinyl, or who just love the inherent appeal of the analog process. I have a substantial investment in my LP collection and analog front end, but if I had not begun building an LP collection some 40 years ago, I seriously doubt I would bother now.
garfish
1,840 posts
 
Joe; I too am in almost total agreement with your thread post. The one place I disagree is that SACD or DVD-A or DVD-V has something like 7 times the storage capacity of a redbook CD, and in the LONG, LONG term this gives it a significant advantage over CD (but maybe not for music?).

BTW,I've now seen SACDs for $17.-- same as "new release" CDs. But my local small town music dealer has never even heard of SACDs-- and they've been out 3 years or so? Amazing.

Right now though, you're right on-- industry is fumbling with converting from a basically low storage disc to a high storage disc-- at least for music. And I for one am not about to give up my ever growing CD collection. As you noted, CDs can sound excellent too, and at age 59, that's where I'm staying. Maybe someday the next generation can look back to the golden age of CDs. Good Luck to us all. Craig
garfish
1,840 posts
 
Nice post Scott. The FMD technology you describe sounds very "Star Trekish". Craig
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