2. amps-preamps
  3. 1399374353

HYPEX,PASCAL OR ABLETEC

Knowing about the many apparently very good class D amps on the market right now and even though I'm very satisfied with my current ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp, I'm seriously considering purchasing one of these amps to try out in my system. My thinking is that, if I do like the amp in my system, I can just use my current amp to replace an older Adcom GFA-545 that currently powers my Magnepan CC3 center channel and my unamplified (passive)sub for ht purposes. I would then always be able to choose which amp I used for my 2 ch music and which amp I used for ht(cc and sub).

Well, I should get to my point:

I'm using an Oppo105 as the master source in my streamlined A/V living room system used 40% for 2-ch music and 60% for ht. For 2-ch listening, I stream my cd collection and hi-res Flac files from a Synology NAS in another room to the Oppo. The Oppo acts as a stand alone dac and sends the analog output via xlr cables to my class D amp (440 w/ch@4ohms) which powers my Magnepan 2.7qr speakers. For ht, I use the Oppo for decoding surround sound from Netflix, Directv and bluray discs. Two class A/B amps power the Oppo's ht audio outputs to my Magnepan CC3 center channel, LFE sub and in-ceiling rear surround channels.
I've narrowed my new amp choices down to the following four listed below. I'm requesting feedback on any or all of these 4 amp options, especially from anyone who has used 1 or more in their system. My budget is $2,000 to $2,500 and my room is 18ft x 13ft with 8ft ceilings. Here are my options:

Option#1 Hypex Ncore nc400 based amp builds from James Romeyn in Utah. A stereo, dual-mono build is $1,500 total and is rated at 400 watts @ 4 ohms. It includes 2 Hypex nc400 power modules both powered by 1 nc12000 smps mounted in a generic case with a black or silver aluminum faceplate with both se and xlr inputs. A pair of mono-blocks built runs a bit under $2,000/pr. total and consists of a nc400 power module mated to a nc600 smps in each 'NCORE' labeled black case with both se and xlr inputs.

Option#2 Pascal amp build from Aluminati Sound in Ohio. This is a stereo build only that will use a new stereo board from Pascal in Denmark, called the SPRO-2, that has a smps incorporated on the board. Power output is rated at 500 watts/ch @ 4 ohms. Forecasted price is about $2,000 but may run a bit higher. Pascal modules are used in the new JRRG Continuum 2 integrated amp that has received very positive sq reviews. Alumnati is owned by 2 former CNC machinists/fabricators. Their main advantage is their case work. One of the Aluminati owners, Matt Kraemer, told me the new stereo Pascal amp is tentatively named the "X-1" and should be available for order by approx. mid July. He said the stereo case will be milled from a single large aluminum block. The finished case will have an anodized finish (think JRRG cases but milled as 1 solid piece instead of multiple anodized face panels attached to a chassis underneath. The aluminum case will have a blue power/status light mounted underneath projecting downward.

Option#3- Abletec amp modules in the DSonic M3-600M mono-blocks. I'm not certain which Abletec modules are used in these amps but the price is $1,950/pr. and power output is 600 watts/ch @ 4 ohms in black cases with a blue power/status light with both se and xlr inputs. The Abletec modules have built-in smps just like the Pascal modules. According to DSonic's owner, Dennis Deacon, the 600Ms and their top-of-the-line 1500Ms have similar sound characteristics, even though the 1500Ms use Pascal modules(likely either a MPro or XPro module).

Option#4- Identical ClassD Audio SDS-440CS amp to replace my older class A/B amp that powers my center ch and sub. This option is least attractive to me since it would mean my music amplification would remain the same and I wouldn't be auditioning any of the newer class D amp modules. If I liked option 1,2 or 3 above better for music playback, I would simply move my existing CDA music amp over to center and sub duties anyways. The only benefit of option #4 is that it's the least expensive at $630.

I've ruled out some amps, like the Wyred4Sound and Red Dragon offerings, because they use the older Ice ucd power modules typically considered sonically inferior to the newer Hypex Ncore, Pascal and Abletec power modules. Any comments comparing the sq of these options is greatly appreciated, especially if you've owned or listened to some of these. I do understand that there is more involved with how various class D amps sound than just the power modules utilized, such as high quality components and custom input stages.

I should also say, just like Audiozen, I have never actually heard a Hypex, Pascal or Abletec powered amp. I'm just curious and base my optimism on the positive reports from owners, listeners and professional reviewers. If I had a larger $10k plus budget, I'd likely just buy a completed amp based on the Hypex Ncore nc1200 power modules, such as Merrill, upcoming Mola-Mola or Acoustic Imagery.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts, comments and suggestions. Please feel free to suggest other reasonably priced class D amps I may have omitted.

Thank you,
Tim



Much like Audiozen, I am basing
128x128noble100
guidocorona
4,114 posts
 
Hi BeatleTim, I am not at all familiar with performance of VH Audio wire products.

Rowland has showcased Continuum S2 fed by Cardas Clear and Clear Beyond in the last couple of shows... I heard it and found the sound to be highly desirable.

I do not havve CS2 in my system, but have had mostly Rowland amps in my system since the late 1990s.... I have had particularly desirable results with Nordost Valhalla 2, Shunyata Anaconda Z-Tron, and Shunyata King Cobra CX. I suspect that the new Shunyata Alpha HC PC may also work very well on CS2.

Guido
hifial's avatar
hifial
332 posts
 
I have been following this thread and have a few points.

1) Have had both an NC400 and an NC1200 (Veritas) in my system.
As good (really good) as the NC400 is it is in NO WAY 90% of the NC1200 in sound. The NC1200, if done right, is in a WHOLE different league.

2) It REALLY does matter who and how they build these amps. And the quality of the parts and cases DO matter. The little things DO make a difference in the quality of the sound.
So if you go the DIY route make sure who ever does it KNOWS what they are doing.

3) The NC400 is ONLY a DIY. Hypex is very aggressive about that. So if a "builder" decides to use a different brand that may be or be part of the reason for the change.

4) One day I would love the chance to hear the Pascal and Albetec Class D amps. The more the better and the better sound for Audiophiles.

5) I agree with Merrill. The Maggie speakers will sound great with the amps he suggests for the reasons he states. A club member who has a pair tried the NC1200 and he said his system never sounded better. At the time he was using one of the better ARC mono amps.

6) As good as the Bel Canto amps are, I like them a lot, I agree with Guido that times have changed.

7) Tim, I see your price range is $2,500 but can you add to this if need be? I ask this because you might be putting all your eggs in one basket. As good as the Oppo is you might be better served by getting a stand alone DAC and a new amp. I have heard the Oppo in several members systems and then when the put in a reasonable priced DAC it really took their system up a notch. There are some great sounding DACs out there for a reasonable price. Say from around $1,000 to $2,000 new and less on the used market. Think Teac, Benchmark, BMC and Lynx Studio. And sometimes there are some really great DACs that cost $2,500-$2,800 new but can be had for as little as $2,000-$1,700 used.

I think the combo of an well built NC400 or Albetec with one of the above DACs would something for you to consider if you can.

Just some thoughts and my 2 cents.

PS Guido, how yu doin.
hifial's avatar
hifial
332 posts
 
Opps, on my closing I meant the Pascal amps not the Albetec.
macrojack
1,292 posts
 
Beatlebum - I'm sorry to have to disappoint you but I just don't subscribe to the power cord thing at all. I'm not saying they don't have the potential to alter the sound, as many a person swears by them. My feeling is that Jeff Rowland is as capable as any wire designer out there and considering the lengths he goes to in designing an amp like ours, I just can't imagine that he would compromise the performance over a power cord negligence.
Different is not necessarily better --- although if you or someone else succeeds in convincing you of the superiority of a device, it then becomes better. It's a pick your poison kind of game since most aspects remain subjective and therefore open to any interpretation.

Have you tried the Flavor 5?

Sorry to be flippant if that bothers you --- I just don't care to pick at tiny nits.

Tell Guido I feel the same about his obsession with break-in. Subjective means just what it says. No absolutes. Everything is SUBJECT to change. Atmospheric pressure, humidity, your mood, ambient sound, time of day, the of wire, degree of isolation, sinuses, etc. can and probably will contribute to irregularities of comparison. And then beyond that what about the very real issue of importance. Isn't it just a tiny bit possible that we inflate the significance of all this to make ourselves feel we're doing something that really matters?

I like my big horns and my little amp and I'm thinking about improving my digital source. Do any of you have experience with the JRDG Aeris?
noble100's avatar
noble100 OP
1,093 posts
 
Macrojack and Guido,

Yes, I'm looking for a cost effective amp that is a good match for my somewhat inefficient Magnepans that enables me to take advantage, and try out, the newer class D advances. I am not opposed to buying used in good condition if it allows me to get performance beyond my modest budget. That's why the Bel Canto seemed attractive, a well reviewed $4k new pair of mono-blocks at 1/4th the price. With 4 days left, however, the high bid on the BC ref500s is now at $1,125 and will probably rise further.

OTOH, Guido raises a good point that the current class D modules from Abletec, Pascal and Hypex may surpass the sq of the older BC amps containing the older ucd modules. All 3 seem to be promising, with good reviews when being used in current amps.
So, back to where I started this inquiry, but that's alright. I'll spend a bit more on the newer technology but hopefully gain better sq for a longer time span.

My current thinking is to wait and buy the new Aluminati X-1 stereo amp with the Pascal SPRO-2 module (that Jeff Rowland obviously likes) and try it with my system. Best case, I love it and keep it for a long time. Worst case, I don't like it, sell it and then try one of the other options.

Thanks for your assistance,
Tim
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