2. tech-talk
  3. 135904-110926

Talk but not walk?

Hi Guys

This isn't meant to start a fight, but it is important to on lookers. As a qualifier, I have my own audio forum where we report on audio issues as we empirically test them. It helps us short cut on theories and developing methods of listening. We have a wide range of systems and they are all over the world adding their experiences to the mix. Some are engineers, some are artist and others are audiophiles both new and old. One question I am almost always asked while I am visiting other forums, from some of my members and also members of the forum I am visiting is, why do so many HEA hobbyist talk theory without any, or very limited, empirical testing or experience?

I have been around empirical testing labs since I was a kid, and one thing that is certain is, you can always tell if someone is talking without walking. Right now on this forum there are easily 20 threads going on where folks are talking theory and there is absolutely no doubt to any of us who have actually done the testing needed, that the guy talking has never done the actual empirical testing themselves. I've seen this happen with HEA reviewers and designers and a ton of hobbyist. My question is this, why?

You would think that this hobby would be about listening and experience, so why are there so many myths created and why, in this hobby in particular, do people claim they know something without ever experimenting or being part of a team of empirical science folks. It's not that hard to setup a real empirical testing ground, so why don't we see this happen?

I'm not asking for peoples credentials, and I'm not asking to be trolled, I'm simply asking why talk and not walk? In many ways HEA is on pause while the rest of audio innovation is moving forward. I'm also not asking you guys to defend HEA, we've all heard it been there done it. What I'm asking is a very simple question in a hobby that is suppose to be based on "doing", why fake it?

thanks, be polite

Michael Green

www.michaelgreenaudio.net


128x128michaelgreenaudio
Post removed 
glupson
1,794 posts
 
"Double yikes!! That’s some pretty strong language there, cowboy. 🤠 Maybe you should try to keep in mind it’s only a hobby."
Can all of us remember these sentences and reuse them next time someone acts/writes inappropriately?
blueranger's avatar
blueranger
575 posts
 
We all need a delete button for Geoffkait.that automatically skips his posts on our screen. Other forums have that option.
wcfeil
464 posts
 
Just don’t read his posts blueranger, it’s not complicated. 

I read all of them. Some are funny. Some aren’t. Some are informative. Some aren’t. Some make sense. Some don’t. 

I try not to take any of this seriously. Makes it easier on the psyche. 
kosst_amojan
2,095 posts
 
Mike, 
I'm pretty sure you'd be banned real fast if you decided to make yourself the post police around here. 
Pretty much any post that begins with "This isn't meant to start a fight" is designed to start a fight. I've never seen someone say such a thing without lobbing some incendiary nonsense into a crowd of people. I've been wanting to start a thread asking people where they draw the line of snake oil. I'm pretty sure leading with "This isn't meant to start a fight" isn't going to make such a thread go any smoother. In fact, I think it would just make me look like more of an arrogant idiot. 
But hey.... Why not actually answer your question with the most obvious answer?
People depend on the science because the science does a good job of explaining reality for people who are subject to reality. (Not so useful for those functioning outside reality, I suppose.) It's also a much better solution to the problem of buying audio gear because science makes very useful predictions about what this, that, and the other will probably do. It avoids just blindly buying gear and trying it and most often getting poor results because the buyer didn't grasp the theory behind the component to make a proper match. People walk on paths through the woods in the daylight because it makes more sense than stumbling through the underbrush at night. Some would call such rational reasoning "close minded". Others would call that not being an idiot. "Close minded" these days is pretty much synonymous with "too smart to try failure".
So.... There's your answer. Wandering blindly through a forest at night is just plain old stupid. Blindly buying gear with no theoretical understanding of what it's doing is just plain old stupid. You have provided absolutely no underlying theory to your claims or methods. If "snake oil" is roughly defined as "claims unsubstantiated by a tested, repeatable, enumerated theory", everything you say and sell is pure snake oil. 
More to discover