I know, Phaser, out there, but, right, you did ask - although I like the Raven part of the thread just as much.
Since I assume most people won't read this farther, someone up above said they have listened to a slew of phono cables. I know that there are all kinds of variables there, but I'd still like to hear that person's opinions on those. Thanks.
Back to swisting the noodle...
Phaser, thanks for your answer. I understand. Although, it could be said that one man's pot luck (the appearance of randomness) is another man's open skies. Forest Gump said, "i don't know if Mamma was right or it was Lt. Dan; I don't know if we all have a destiny (determinism)or we are all just floatin' around on a breeze (randomness). But I think its both. I think both is a happin' at once."
Although I can't prove it to you, I can tell you that at one altitude it looks random and then at the next, not. At that next higher altitude, there is then a different kind of incongruency in experience, and then higher, a different kind; perceptions of chaos/order, perceptions of what is random and what is order, changing at each altitiude, on and on and on. Until you "see" all altitudes at once. Of course, that's not me; I have plenty of my own random-ness perceptions in my own little place, just none left related to empiricism versus subjectivism. Its the same coin to me; empiric subjectivism and experiential objectivism, no versus. Love science, love Van Gogh paintings. Not too crazy about what we are doing through our tools to the earth, and not too crazy about, well, 'ol Vincent being a bit crazy, but that's another story.
Yes, I run an all SET, hard wired, all NOS tubed system. But I know what you mean about euphonics. Live music is visceral and if any sound creation (in the hi-end, you are melding other peoples ideas of sound into your own by mixing components) has any quality that gets in the way of the subjective experience of the sound catalyzing the listening mind, then one should keep looking. For myself, I have a very hard time finding any speakers I like with SET's and have never liked an amp that didn't have NOS tubes (excepting the new production WE 300B, which I think is a good tube. Then, again, I haven't heard all of them). At one time I had ESP Concert Grands, big multi-driver speakers, being run by 50W SET's - really beatiful, stirring. So, I understand what you are saying there too. Valin described the Raven as "beautiful." Who doesn't want that in the/your world?
Piedpiper: Some things - actually, mostly about things - are verifiable empirically through scientific method (producing tools, which we call technology, putting tools together, which we call a machine). But not all experience is wholly quantifiable, including the perception of musical meaning. It would be great if that were the case, but, alas, it is not. The dynamics of reality, or the laws of physics, or "God," or whatever boat you want to row, hasn't made it that easy. It doesn't want someone else to run an experiment and, thereby, tell you all of the answers. Sure, you can derive much power over materiality by these methods, but, eventually, you see that "it" wants you to find the rest out on your own (that's where the need for security in attachment to scientific materialism comes in; deeper, its actually a recoil from being open to the possibility of more answers, which, paradoxically, isn't very scientific). A tool is not doing the listening, and neither are your ears; they are conduits to your mind. Information about second-order harmonics doesn't tell you the causal origin about why an SET system, or any system, catalyzes the mind deeper. It might be a good place to start, but its not the finish.
You can't prove "beauty" exists objectively, but don't you want it? Did/do you love your mother, your spouse? Prove it, to me, objectively.
Someone once said, "Argue for your limitations and, sure enough, they are yours." That's another dynamic of reality.
Since I assume most people won't read this farther, someone up above said they have listened to a slew of phono cables. I know that there are all kinds of variables there, but I'd still like to hear that person's opinions on those. Thanks.
Back to swisting the noodle...
Phaser, thanks for your answer. I understand. Although, it could be said that one man's pot luck (the appearance of randomness) is another man's open skies. Forest Gump said, "i don't know if Mamma was right or it was Lt. Dan; I don't know if we all have a destiny (determinism)or we are all just floatin' around on a breeze (randomness). But I think its both. I think both is a happin' at once."
Although I can't prove it to you, I can tell you that at one altitude it looks random and then at the next, not. At that next higher altitude, there is then a different kind of incongruency in experience, and then higher, a different kind; perceptions of chaos/order, perceptions of what is random and what is order, changing at each altitiude, on and on and on. Until you "see" all altitudes at once. Of course, that's not me; I have plenty of my own random-ness perceptions in my own little place, just none left related to empiricism versus subjectivism. Its the same coin to me; empiric subjectivism and experiential objectivism, no versus. Love science, love Van Gogh paintings. Not too crazy about what we are doing through our tools to the earth, and not too crazy about, well, 'ol Vincent being a bit crazy, but that's another story.
Yes, I run an all SET, hard wired, all NOS tubed system. But I know what you mean about euphonics. Live music is visceral and if any sound creation (in the hi-end, you are melding other peoples ideas of sound into your own by mixing components) has any quality that gets in the way of the subjective experience of the sound catalyzing the listening mind, then one should keep looking. For myself, I have a very hard time finding any speakers I like with SET's and have never liked an amp that didn't have NOS tubes (excepting the new production WE 300B, which I think is a good tube. Then, again, I haven't heard all of them). At one time I had ESP Concert Grands, big multi-driver speakers, being run by 50W SET's - really beatiful, stirring. So, I understand what you are saying there too. Valin described the Raven as "beautiful." Who doesn't want that in the/your world?
Piedpiper: Some things - actually, mostly about things - are verifiable empirically through scientific method (producing tools, which we call technology, putting tools together, which we call a machine). But not all experience is wholly quantifiable, including the perception of musical meaning. It would be great if that were the case, but, alas, it is not. The dynamics of reality, or the laws of physics, or "God," or whatever boat you want to row, hasn't made it that easy. It doesn't want someone else to run an experiment and, thereby, tell you all of the answers. Sure, you can derive much power over materiality by these methods, but, eventually, you see that "it" wants you to find the rest out on your own (that's where the need for security in attachment to scientific materialism comes in; deeper, its actually a recoil from being open to the possibility of more answers, which, paradoxically, isn't very scientific). A tool is not doing the listening, and neither are your ears; they are conduits to your mind. Information about second-order harmonics doesn't tell you the causal origin about why an SET system, or any system, catalyzes the mind deeper. It might be a good place to start, but its not the finish.
You can't prove "beauty" exists objectively, but don't you want it? Did/do you love your mother, your spouse? Prove it, to me, objectively.
Someone once said, "Argue for your limitations and, sure enough, they are yours." That's another dynamic of reality.