Tracking error distortion audibility

Dear Pryso: +++++ " This is the first time I can recall anyone suggesting that overhang is arbitrary and can be set anyplace (i.e. at the end of the arm) at the user's discretion. " +++++

me either and the problem was/is that he never answer the " right " Dan question about the spindle to pivot distance. He say works with the DB protractor where you can't to measure any of those distances: effective length or spindle/pivot.

So everyone has to assume ( like you ) that the overhang and effective length were take it at " random " because there is no reference point taked about.

I think that maybe he has a misunderstood on the subject or needs an up-date but of course he can " drive " the road he choose it ( like it to us or not ) where he already has such " distortions " where only can have " great " sound around the lead out groove ( null pont ) due to its " odd " tonearm/cartridge set-up.

I'm with you, Halcro, Dan and Thom on the Feathed " argument ".

I always say that all of us ( in this forum ) have the opportunity to learn every single day from everyone: things are that we want it, a not always " easy " attitude.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Hi Thom:

Of course I realize the headshell slots allow for offset adjustments as well as overhang. To simplify the argument (which seems to have become complex enough on its own!), I was focusing only on the overhang as it relates to individual cartridge dimensions. This was to address Feathed's quote regarding the headshell slots. And having met Brooks Berdan I will look forward to your report back with his take on this discussion.

I've never used an SME arm but it is fairly obvious that their mounting slot accommodates overhang adjustments. I hadn't considered their use of headshell holes rather than slots as limiting offset adjustments -- good point.

But as Raul points out, these forums are an opportunity to learn. So whenever anyone posts information that runs contrary to science or common knowledge there is also the chance to misinform. That is unless they can produce new proofs to support their position.

Hi all,
I'm getting a bit late into the fray of it all. I have the SAME inner groove distortion issue, AND every recipe that's been kicked around was tried, and failed.
Set-up is bit easier in my case I guess, since I sport an almost brand new SME-V arm, Peer Windfeld cart that's well played-in ~ 1/2 year on an SME-10 tt, ML326S phono-boards with SUT! Pass 350.5, Burmester 961 Mk3. So, call it high resolution is why I go into it.

I can move over-hang on the fly, VTA pretty much so, Azimuth is fixed on the V, and it IS ok (checked by mirror method), VTF has been tried as has been, also on the fly anti-skate. -------- AND I still have inner groove distortion. Marvellous reproduction every where else but through the last ~ 25% on the inside. I do understand the respondent arguing if he like me has tried all of that USUALLY brought up set-up stuff. Tried it all, nothing works!

Einstein once said: To keep on doing the same thing over and over, and expect different results -- IS THE SIGN OF INSANITY!

So, In also recall very well that the analogue fundi of Image-HiFi Mag. Dirk Sommer has been moaning about those "dreaded inner groove distortions" again!
Hallo, there is a guy on the level with M. Fremmer saying this?! How so?

Now my good Audio friend tried to fix his inner groove distortion --- and got it fixed beautily! Now he has OUTER GROOVE DISTORTION! Whow, not my idea of a fix either.

Why do I mention this? HE CAN'T SEEM TO HEAR IT!?!
So I think, it also has to do with hearing, like e.g. sibilants, and of course the higher you system resolution the more you CAN (or aught to) hear it.

Lastly I have a notion (but can not prove it) that it is EXACTLY this issue that make folks go for 10.5" - 12" tonearms.
(I'm sure we do not need to explain the geometry differences here)

Greetings...

Axelwahl,

What you are describing is NOT normal and does NOT have to be accepted. New or used arm doesn't matter. If one can't set up a 9" arm correctly, one probably can't set up a 12" arm correctly either.

Axelwahl,

Sorry for your sonic pain. I've no doubt you hear exactly what you describe. I used to hear it too. I don't now, ever, and I agree with Dan_ed. Inner (or outer) groove distortion does not have to be accepted.

There's at least one thing you didn't mention and presumably haven't tried (because your tonearm won't let you?). You haven't done a really good alignment of your cantilever zenith angle. This requires a headshell with room for movement (ie, slots) and a truly good protractor.

Sliding an SME back and forth moves the null points, which is why you can shift the distortion from inside grooves to outsidge grooves, but it doesn't change the overall alignment scheme to one that eliminates distortion at both extremes. For that you need a top quality protractor designed to such a scheme and a tonearm that will let you use it.

Until you have the right tools, you'll continue to beat your head against this wall.