Totally Confused about home theater

Thanks, Sean--you're the only one of my guys I hadn't e-mailed (I've given up).

I started this thread because I got a cheap Sharp two channel DVD player which I'm running through my Soundstream/Krell DAC. It was by far the heaviest model of all the cheap DVDs, so I figured it had the better power supply. With the JMlabs it just sounded really clean and dynamic. When I hooked my new Swans it was even better sounding, if not as dynamic. It was then that I realized that I had no HT installation to use as reference.

There's a local Barrett's Adio Video, Circuit City and Best Buy. Barrett's has a projection screen with an M&K satellite system which although loud and clean doesn't impress me a bit. I have my Mirage on classified and so far only one guy was intersted and eventually tried to offer me $100 for them. They are new in the box and I am not giving them away. NFW. Those were $300 a pair and nowadays if you want Mirage bipolar surrounds they start at $600/pr. So, that's why I'm thinking of separating the systems. The other consideration is that bipolars are tricky to place, so I hear.

Still, I want to do the best I can and if I get my old Wharfedale Diamond 2's from a friend who's not using them I would be able to use the 7.1's up front, the Mirages on the side and the 2's in the rear. I think it could be a pretty neat system which would put to shame many many megabuck systems--no sweat.

On the other hand, when my Swans are finally placed on their custom stands the tweeters' centers will be at 37.5 inches. The tweeters have a controlled dispersion pattern (15 deg vert, 60 deg hor) so I don't think my stereo image is severely compromised (I place an RPG Pro Foam level one panel in front of the TV when playing music). I haven't tried A/B'ing this because the TV *is* heavy...

Like you said Sean, with what I already know I'll go way farther than most...

Still confused nonetheless.

Francisco

Sean, you are right on target! I wonder if the problem isn't that many HT people don't know what sound is supposed to sound like. If they've been watching VHS played on a Circuit City special sending RF to a 27" Magnavox, even horrid HT sound is a vast improvement. I've found that lots of folks who buy those $50K HT systems are replacing exactly that kind of junk.

At the risk of sounding like just another horribly snobbish audiophile, I find a great many--a majority--of HT buyers lacking in listening skills and naive about what can be achieved with a little care and effort.

"Don't call me naive. I have a Runco projector. I have Cinepro amplifiers. I have a line sextupler. I have electric drapes. I have a Crestron control system and the programming fees, alone, cost more than your speakers. I have an original Jimmy Dean poster. And I payed a fortune for these speakers that mount right in the wall...."

Tim, this was a dedicated A/V room and set up as such. There is no excess clutter, acoustics were taken into consideration, the system was dialed in using their "in-house professional testing methods", etc...

The thing that i think REALLY killed the sound was the placement of the mains. Since they were using an overhead projector and were trying to make it look as "neat" as possible with no "clutter" on the floor, the mains, center channel and three subs were mounted in recesses on the front wall. All of the gear was built into a "closet" off to the side. The speakers and components were in turn covered with opening "hatches" or doors that were open framed with grill cloth covering them. As such, the speakers had to be tucked in somewhat behind the flat surface of the wall or they would have protruded, ruining the "clean appearance" that they were shooting for.

Besides the fact that there was NO imaging taking place (sheesh, i wonder why ??? ), the speakers that they had selected were of a mirror imaged vertical array or "D'Appolito" design. Starting from top to bottom, they had a woofer, a mid, a tweeter, a mid and then a woofer. As anyone that has used this type of design or knows anything about speaker dispersion characteristics, this type of array has very limited vertical dispersion while producing a very wide horizontal radiation pattern. The fact that they had the tweeters centered appr 2' - 3' over your head while in your seated listening position made NO sense to me at all. The mids and highs were simply beaming over your head. This is what probably accounted for the complete lack of "crispness" or "dry" and "boxy" characteristics in vocals and spoken word that i noticed.

I was told that they had to position the mains that high in order to fit a subwoofer underneath each main and provide isolation between the two different cabinets. Keep in mind that the speakers were by a well respected manufacturer and probably capable of quite good performance IF properly positioned. I didn't name any of the gear used here, as it is not the manufacturers fault that one of their dealers does not know what they are doing. As such, they should not receive "bad press" due to sales incompetence.

If i would have stood up while watching the movie clips or snippets of music, it might have sounded MUCH better. I'm sure that the person doing the "acoustic analysis" of the system probably was standing up and moving about, so it would look good during that type of test in terms of "specs". To me, it just goes to show that you can have all of the right components, know how to go through the motions of "proper testing procedures" and still screw things up due to lack of common sense. They trusted their test equipment without ever taking time to listen to what they were hearing.

Then again, the salespeople doing the demo's are always standing up, so they've probably never really noticed nor do they hear exactly what the seated customer hears. If they would have trusted their ears and used the system as an end user would, they would have known right away that this system was NOT very good. Regardless of what they spent or the brands used, it was a tremendous effort put forth that resulted in utter failure. Sean
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Well Mr. Bishop, what should I do with my Mirage MBS Bipolars? Will it be OK to use them as rear surrounds with the Swans' ribbon tweeter? I have a back wall adjacent to my couch. Would it be worthwhile to use them as side surrounds and get some others for the rear?

I think the video guys are following a "Top-down" approach to their rigs. Just look at this guy's system:

http://home.earthlink.net/~peregrinefalcon/

Sonically, it is not what any of us here would do (my ears can't stand Polk speakers for a start), but he knows what he's doing: He has setup a HOME THEATER. A pretty damn good one if you ask me.

Just as we strive to bring the 'spirit of the music' in our systems and then move on to 'audio Nirvana' this peregrine falcon has achieved the 'spirit of the movie theater' in his residence. To go to HT Nirvana he would need to upgrade to separates and some bad ass JMlab's...he would forget Polk in a snap!

Psychicanimal - I'm not sure what your goals are, but I'd offer the following points:

A major consideration is whether you're going to go with one system or two. I love both music and HT and space dictates one system, so my focus is on making a system that is as good as possible for both which, necessarily, involves some compromise. I'd make that decision first.

For HT, I'd set up a simple 5.1 setup (though agree with Sean that even 2-channel HT is a HUGE upgrade over straight TV). I'd set my decoder on Dolby Digital and forget about it for a good long time. There are more formats coming out every day. They undoubtedly have a lot to offer. You might decide you want to pursue them some day. But for the time being, brand new to this part of the hobby, I'd just do DD and forget about it. Every DVD is compatible, no confusion, lots of fun.

For your rears, use whatever you have laying around, at least to start. The front three really need to be a matched set, but the rears can be fine as just a pair of decent speakers set up in back. Again, if you find yourself loving it, you might decide to upgrade them, and there would be benefit to doing so, but the basic experience will be there without spending more to get matched rears.

If you go with a single system, you'll have to decide how you want to optimize for sound - there are many more things that might matter to you in a combined system than in a 2-channel, music-only system, unless you decide up front that you're going to optimize completely for 2-channel sound. There are many threads around detailing how you might achieve better sound for both through various options. Lots of gear to choose from, most of which has significant strengths and weaknesses.

I sympathize with your audioMart experiences - I can't find anybody at any store who offers any kind of real advice. I think anybody reading this forum knows LOTS more than most people who make a living at this about gear just by reading the magazines and forums, etc.

Hope this helps. -Kirk