The great myth of the XlR

Bigtee,

You're absolutely right. A good system MUST have the ability to sound absolutely horrible. My epiphany regarding this came when I listened to a live Peter Green era Fleetwood Mac album my friend brought over. I thought it sounded like a bad recording until it hit me that it sounded EXACTLY like a typical (lousy) rock PA system from the sixties.
As to your comments about neutrality, I can only say amen! If it ain't neutral, it ain't high fidelity (anybody remember what that means besides me, you and some of my friends?). Instruments should sound like themselves, not like what you wish they sounded like.

Do a real violin hurt your ear when playd live ?

In many systems symbals can sound like torture, what people will say is thats how its sounds in reallity.

Well it dos not i have play rock musik for 15 years and i can asure you a symblal dos not sound like have it dos in many systems.

As i see it if you want absolut neutarlity buy a studio monitor, but that is made to studi sound if thats your thing.
Me i get bored after 5 minuts higeend or not.

A funny thing about speakers is the way the all sound different in have the presend the music itsself, so what is neutral really ? with hifi.

There is more to it then the tonal balance.

Its not just about being neutral thats the goal because nothing really is .

Speakers can be created so the have soul and hart in have the presend the music itsself sad that most manufactors with white coats and to many pensels in the suit dont see this as a goal.

If you listend purly to live recordings it would make a littel sence i ges.
What draws me to hifi is not to recreatd the real thing because it really sounds not that good unless you are there or are doing it yuour self.
But the emotinal easpect surtenly but its almost aways wiped away with a studio monitor like sound.

With hifi its possible to recreate a more intense emotinal experince then live.
Even better then then real thing so to speak

But hey we all have different goals with our system nothing is more right then wrong some likes it analytical some dont.

regards

Virtualimage-glad someone gets it! High Fidelity has wondered way off its original goals. It's sad. It seems now whatever suits an individuals taste (sound wise,) then it is automatically labeled high fidelity. High fidelity is about reproducing the original source as accurately as possible. It was never so much about sounding good(which leaves everything open for interpretation.) So many companies are proceeding with this premise to the detriment of audio. Of course, companies must market and sell what consumers want. I can take some pretty inexpensive components and make them sound good!
And just for the record, I have never heard a system approach the real thing! And I've heard and owned some mega buck stuff. It has always sounded pretty much what it is-a facsimile.

My point is that you can never recreate the real thing, so why try to force hifi into somthing it can never be.

Most comapnys try to strive to what you are referreing to as neutal of high fidility but in reality the are missing the point.

I musy say that i have been amazed to find out that hifi popple many times have littel or no undersatnding about what creats good music and why its alsmost a divine part of the human life.

This is not amid at enyone in this treat but to my utterly amazedment many hifi people use music only as a messarment tool for how the hifi fidility are in the given system, completly overlooking the real importants.

i have a tact millennium mk3 that has been moddified to such a extend that the stock one sounds brok in comparison and i can asure you that its the closest you can get to recreating have a acoustic guitar or have a violin or a voice actually sounds, but in reality this has very littel to do with true musicality.

The most important thing in creating music is getting the pitch and timing right and every thing is in tune.
As a musicain i know this very well.
The better a system is to preserving this the more musical it will sound.
Very few components gets this right.

Its here we can talk about real neutrality .

A system that can preserve thise important musical clues will sound musical neutral, amd completly change nature with different genres or dynamic shifts
The tonal colur has ver very littel to do with this.

No matter how colourless or transperant a system is if it dossent get the pitch and timing right it will distord the music to a more or less extend and thats why some cds sound bad and some dont.

Some cds just show this faults more.

You say that the better a system is the worse a so called bad recording will sound , this is not my experince when systems that gets the pitch and timing right .
listnig to systems that are good at this can be a revelation with before bad sounding cds

Unfortunately, pitch and timing fall into another one of those elusive categories. Ones man pitch is another mans distortion.
How can you have decent timing in speakers (which I'm assuming we're talking here) with high order crossovers destroying the phase relationships and drivers even being wired out of phase?
I know amps with high negative feedback have timing issues.
Also, to elaborate on Cd's, a lot of them are recorded with phase and timing issues. This would account for some of the "Goofy" sound you receive from some of them.
Now, back to my bottom line, you can include timing and pitch variables in with all the rest. How do you know when the timing is right when it should have been wrong with the recording? You follow this? They're no absolutes. Everything is pure conjecture on the individual listeners part. This is why we have so many amps, speakers, etc.
Everyone has a different idea. Everyone wants to "Tune" a system to their specific sonic specifications.
I play sax and have for many years. They're so few speakers (and/or systems) that can reproduce sax realistically, it's truly worrisome. Spending great sums of money for something that is inaccurate by any definition doesn't make sense to me when you can honestly do it much cheaper and meet the sonic criteria of "Good sound."
Therefore, you try to purchase as honest and accurate a system as possible using test results, listening results and other criteria that gives you a fair chance at true accuracy. My belief is a good, honest and accurate system will provide greater long term satisfaction than a system that gets it right some of the time.
Look at how much is for sale on A'gon. All these people aren't trading up! Dissatisfaction runs rampant. There's a reason for this.