$800 Cartridge Shootout and Upgrade Path

Dear Artar1: If you read my answer to your question you can see that the DP6 that I choose was with the standard headshell, not with the precision arm tube.
Regards and always enjoy the music.
Raul.

HI, my two cents here:

I own a Denon 103r, after having a Rega Elys, Cardas Heart, VdH 10MC and Linn K9. This cart is very musical, involving, well rounded and a great bargain.

I have heard many other great cartridges at some friends systems here, some sound better, but at x5 cost !

Fernando

Artar,

I didn't mean to imply that only money would be the deciding factor. I meant that in the case of an aesthetic tie that "value" would be the key. By value I mean a combination of performance, price and aesthetic factors. This would be determining equation. Now any one of those factors can "break the bank". If for instance money is tight, that may do it or I don't like the looks of one of the tables. Or the sound might blow me away and I will decide, "this is the one!" Believe me, my desires will battle with my reason till either the white or dark horse will pull to a decision. I am sure that when this happens I will be happy with the result.

I, too, have had a thing for the La Luce tables! Jeez, it says that they have one used, you should go for it! Only 13 grand!
My brother actually likes the look of the Linn but the only dealers near him sell Linn, Rega and Music Hall which while nice tables aren't my idea of state of the art. And again, for people like him the magazines plant certain ideas that, as with most people, turn into opinions. We all desire to know things, and as I've seen too often on the 'asylum, confuse second-hand anecdotal evidence as knowledge. Even first hand experience is relative to those many changing factors. I'm not saying that empirical or second-hand data, is invalid, but that empirical evidence is best accompanied by YMMV or IMHO and that second-hand data is something that should be acquired through a large data set. I have read lots in magazines, on the internet, here and on the asylum forums and have developed criteria as much as I can through this and what empirical listening with different tables I have been able to get access to.
This dovetails with what you saying to twl, that what he tells us is very worthwhile but he should not feel responsible for the use of the information he gives. I have come to respect his views through reading a large number of his posts and think that he tends to give a very balanced and thorough view without trying to push an ulterior motive. Some people want to push a certain approach or product as if it's the only way in their "expert" voice. That's fine but to me, those people are noise and I tend to block it out. However, in the end it is my responsibility to sift and sort the data, and come up with my own decision and the accountability of a mistake resides solely with me. What I come to is not knowledge (as Socrates says, as time goes on the one thing that he does know is that he doesn't know) but enough information to be dangerous enough to throw thousands of dollars down the analog hole. Though twl and dougdeacon better watch out if that Teres ain't great cuz I'm coming after them!!! Kidding!!!
Really, everybody here has been a great help and I'm confident that I'm on the edge of a great decision. Kudos to everyone who has contributed to this dialogue.

Flg2001,

Yes, the Denon 103R is a very popular cartridge, one used by several of the people who have posted here. Can't go wrong with that unit.

Hey Letch,

It’s only money, right? That’s what I keep telling myself! Hang in there!

Not to make matters worse for you, have you seen the Redpoint tables? They are breathtaking to say the least.

I know that money will not be the final arbiter in you situation. Sonic performance and aesthetics are important to us both, right? I don’t think it will be a tie. I don’t know why I say that, but I think once you see the top-of-the-line Galibier, you won’t be satisfied with anything else! I know that feeling well. And I bet you’re going have trouble sleeping once you have made your decision. That’s how it is with me. Man I need help. I think I’ll go to AA – Audiophiles Anonymous! “Hi, my name is Artar1…

Also remember that you will need to do finishing work with the Teres if you were to buy the 245 or 255. But you could always by the Cocobolo model! Yeah! That’s the ticket.

Hold me back! Only thirteen big ones for a used La Luce, why sign me up now! What’s 13K, anyway? (That’s more than I spent for my daughter when I bought her a used 2001 Beetle.)

So let your brother buy the Linn. Wait until he sees your Galibier/Teres. He’s going to be green with envy for sure. Man I bet he dumps the Linn or tells you have lousy your rig sounds. Is he older or younger than you?

>>And again, for people like him the magazines plant certain ideas that, as with most people, turn into opinions.<<

You know I have a similar problem, but I try not to let them become strong opinions! : - )

It’s really hard not be influenced by the so-called experts, especially when one cannot see and hear the equipment firsthand. You are very fortunate that you will at least get a chance to see both units before you make a decision, but you won’t be able to hear either one within the context of you own system.

>>We all desire to know things, and as I've seen too often on the 'asylum, confuse second-hand anecdotal evidence as knowledge.<<

Damn, that sounds like me; I had better clean up my act right away. : - )
As I always say, “Others are entitled to my opinion.” Wait a minute, that didn’t come out right. Let me start again. “The opinions of others find their genesis in my well-formed advice.” Oops. Well, you know what I mean?

Unfortunate, first hand experience comes very slowly. It’s not easy to arrange for meaningful auditions of the very equipment we would like to buy. My preference is to ready about this equipment extensively in the press, if it’s available, and as well as online. Then I like to listen to the piece or pieces in the dealer’s showroom. And finally, I like to bring the unit home for testing in my own system. But that’s not always possible either. Finally, I like to listen to live, unamplified music to refresh my memory with what “real” music sounds like.

In this vein, it sounds like you have really done your homework and are ready to listen to your “very short list” of candidates. I think you are doing a great job and will be rewarded with a really hot deck.

>>I have come to respect {Twl’s] views through reading a large number of his posts, and think that he tends to give a very balanced and thorough views without trying to push an ulterior motive.<<

I agree totally. Twl is more objective than Michael Fremer.

>> Some people want to push a certain approach or product as if it's the only way in their "expert" voice.<<

I just hate that, don’t you? When I give advice I try to place it in context to what I perceive the person is asking, not from some hidden agenda of my own. If I don’t know, I simply say so.

>>However, in the end it is my responsibility to sift and sort the data, and come up with my own decision and the accountability of a mistake resides solely with me.<<

I agree. It also helps that when it comes to analog I am not hyper-picky. There are many turntables and tonearms that I could be completely happy with, many of which I cannot afford, however. For me it’s not so much about knowledge of the external world, but knowledge and experience of the inner landscape of my own being. If I come to experience my own inner process without judgment and the preconceived ideas of others, I am more likely to make the right choice, one that fulfills both my mind and heart.