$9000 speaker Orangutan or speaker + amplifier

If you're buying the Devores new, why don't you take advantage of your dealer's expertise? Nobody here owns them, so everyone is basically talking out of their ass. Go to the dealer, try them with a set amp and try them in your home if you need to. Then you'll really know if everything works. When you pay full retail, you should take advantage of the dealer's services. That's a significant part of what you're paying for. I've owned the SHL5 and they are wonderful, so you won't be making a mistake with them either. It's just that if you're buying used, you don't get to hear them before buying. It's a crapshoot at best as to whether they'll work in your room.

Having never heard either speaker, and seeing both options as viable, I see bigger up side with larger and more efficient and costly Devores even off you r current 30 watt amp, so my guess (only a guess) is that is the better way. But no telling which any individual might prefer. If someone has heard both speakers and could chirp in, that would be helpful.

Are you able to audition either before committing to buy new? That would be a big bonus.

Otherwise, wait to buy either used when you can and do not overpay and then sell and try other later if still needed without taking much of a financial hit.

Otherwise, take your pick (along with new amp if needed), but be prepared to loose money if you buy new and end up still wanting to try the other and have to sell to finance. With Harbeth, if you sell you might decide to keep the new tube amp to use with Devores and sell old amp, in which case financial loss would be less selling just new less expensive Harbeths.

Atma,

I thought the Orangutans O/96 will go well with SET amps (8-10W), is that not the case ? That would be sad, if so I will not bother with the Devore. My prime interest in this speaker would be to get a chance to try out SET amps and see what the fuss is all about.

Mapman, If I go for the Harbeth I would have to spend the 5K difference in price (between Harbeth and Devore) on a tube amp 50W+

So approx it will be same cost. 10K + change.

12K = Devore Orangutan
6K (Harbeth) + 6K (Higher power tube amp 60W) = 12K

Still wondering which might be better.

Tube amp + Orangutan (very cool name for those speakers BTW) is likely a very good match, but I would still lean towards 30 w/ch Pass SS amp with 90+ db efficient Orangutans rather than any 30 w amp, tube or SS with 86 DB efficient speakers, Harbeth or otherwise, for best performance overall, given the choices, but personal preference in individual cases is probably the deciding factor in the end. None of the combos should sound bad, especially at low to moderate volumes. It all depends. THat's what keeps this stuff interesting. You often never know for sure until you try. Specs and technical designs only tell part of the whole story.

The Orangutan is intended to be moderately high efficiency and an easy load for tube amplifiers. A transistor amplifier is not likely to show them off properly- I suspect that the design may not work properly with transistors. (for more on why, see http://www.atma-sphere.com/Resources/Paradigms_in_Amplifier_Design.php.)

Given what I have seen of them, to really make them sing you will want some power, of course a lot depends on your room!

Esrand realize also that tube amps will usually "soft clip" meaning that things may well still sound pretty good even when clipping, whereas most SS amps (not all) tend towards "hard clipping" meaning sonic effects of clipping are interpreted more as an unpleasant form of distortion.

I think you would find the clearest difference in performance between the two combos with pop/electronic/rock type music played at higher volumes. This is a listening scenario where soft clipping may often be clearly interpreted as a disadvantage versus no clipping at all in play, with either a suitable SS or tube amp.

NEt result is many get by fine with a lot fewer tube watts than SS, especially for mostly acoustic music played at lower to moderate volumes.

Of course there are many other factors that go into the sound besides clipping, but clipping is no doubt public enemy # 1 for most in terms of threat to achieving excellent results all the time, personal preferences aside.

Swampwalker, are the Dragons that good ? Have you heard them.

I have only heard of them.

Mapman, thanks for your response. What you say makes a lot of sense, am experiencing it (I think) right now. With Aleph 3 powering my Vienna Acoustics Haydn.

Arh, I once made the mistake of electronics later, speakers first. Never again. My haydns sound sooooo much better with 6K upgrade in electronics.

Hence my question: Am trying to understand if the Devores are so much better than Harbeth that it might beat a great tube amp + Harbeth, while being powered by Aleph 3.

Essrand- Sorry; I misunderstood your comment

(Coincident Dragon $6500)

to mean that you could buy them for $6500. I agree w you, if I could find them at that price, I'd buy them in a heartbeat.

Well, if the deciding factor is cost, then the decision is easy, get the less expensive speakers that you like. Don't overpay used + you can then sell again if needed without taking a big financial hit. Should sound quite good with the kinds of music you mention. Definitely so once the right amp is in place.

Volume sans clipping and dynamics possible are likely where the 30 watt amp with 86 db efficient speakers will have its achilles heel versus the alternative, but might not be a factor in your case. All combos have strengths and weaknesses. THat's why you find so many different ones out there.

Personally, for serious listening, I like to do whatever possible to avoid any chance of an amp clipping. CLipping is audio public enemy # 1, like Kryptonite to SUperman, usually. It is hard to avoid totally with many modern recordings in particular and effects can range from unclear to clearly noticeable. Avoid distortion due to clipping, and many choices then come down to a matter of personal preference. Nobody likes distortion due to clipping yet all hifi rigs are subject to it though, no matter how good otherwise. If dynamics continue to go up in proportion as long as you turn the volume knob up, you are usually in pretty good shape in regards to clipping. if dynamics start to level off even as the volume goes up, then the amp is probably clipping. Teh amount of power needed to prevent an amp from clipping with low efficiency speakers can be quite surprising!

Swampwalker, I cannot find the Dragons for $6500, If I did.....

Mapman, your reply makes total sense.
though my dealer claims a 40W Tube amp (Quad 2) can power SHL5. I did see some virtual systems powering SHL5s with 70-80W. THough he thinks with 30W I might not get the full dynamics.

One reason I want to try the Orangutans is that I want to venture into the world of SET amps. Would the O/93 work with SET, 0/96 is 4K more $$ :|

Bob, your thoughts make sense, it might cost less for me to try the Harbeths and then if it doesnt work sell it off.

hmmm... too many choices... too little $$ :)

I am always in favor of getting the speaker you like most and worry later about electronics.
I would get the DEVores.
Alan

Where can you get a pair of Coincident Dragons for $6500? PM me thru Agon system if you don't want to post it here.

It is your money and I like the Harbeths & I would buy used and try with your current amp. I have owned the shl5's and they sound great with most amps. Your Pass Alpha 3 would proably work fine. Have not heard the Orangutans which might be a better speaker. Hard to fault the Harbeths. If it doesn't work just sell them.

I agree with Mapman and I really like the Orangutans! That would be my choice.

I like the O/96s if you have enough room for them. They need space and at least 8 ft between them and the listener. I heard them in a small room and the magic was missing.

Perhaps you can buy the speaker you truelu love and then slowly build a system around them-- at least that is what I did. The Devore's love tubes.

One paper, the Devore combo would appear to be a good one on paper largely due to the fairly high efficiency of teh speakers that should perforkm well with a high quality 30 w/ch amp like the Pass, which you already have.

Second combo uses very inefficient speakers without a lot of power to compensate, so that could be a bottleneck. Still would likely sound quite lovely for a lot of music though, and I could easily see where this might be the preferred combo for some, despite not matching up as well on paper.

So, in lieu of actually having heard either combo, the Devore/Pass combo seems better on paper + you already own the amp, so no change needed there to try. That would seem to be the logical choice based on the information available.

Remember though that one of the things that makes audio fun is that you can never know for certain what might sound good or not on any given day in any particular place until you hear, so while paper specifications are the best indicators of what should work together best technically, it is no guarantee of best sound.