Another

Rhanson739, no harm intended. I am finding it odd, that in your original post, you did not mention the need to replace your amp, because of faulty and reliability issues. The amp, on a sonic standpoint, seemed to do everything you wanted an amp to do for you. Unless I missed something in my readings, you withheld the name of the amp manufacturer( not critical), although you mention it to be a very powerful Class D amp. Without the use of a preamp, via your associated equipment listing (also mentioned by Bigkidz), you might be running into an impedance mismatch, or, too low of a voltage gain, this amp requires. I understand the reasons of not using a preamp, but I also understand the benefits of using one. I am just wondering, if, Magnepan, knew of your problem/situation, as well as the amp manufacturer ? I do not know of any of the new, very large, Class D amps available, based on my readings, that would not drive your Maggies. Even some of the high powered Class D pro amps should drive them. How they sound, that is another story. Thank you, Mr.D

Mr D,

I did not mention the manufacturer because I did not want to disparage them. While they make a good product that many enjoy, I have not had the luck of the draw in terms of reliability.

Nor have some others. I am curious about, and under informed about, any voltage or impedance mismatches that might be occurring here, but I will say that my issues have been reported by others who own the same amp, so perhaps my problems are not that unique, nor related to my setup.

Magnepan does not know of this issue.

I would truly love it if someone could look at the specs of my system and say, "There! no wonder!", but no one has pointed to anything obvious.

Can you?

It could just be that this amp is prone to failures. I'm certainly not the only one to experience exactly the same issues.

As for true solutions, I'm all ears, and willing to be educated about it.

Thanks. I hope you can provide some insights.

Rhanson739, as knowledgeable and experienced as I am, or, think I am, with this hobby of recorded music listening, I do not have a recommendation for you. I will say, as my finances, and my life (in general) are not what they once were, I no longer own very expensive equipment. When listening to speakers, it is, imhi, that unless one designs a listening room, with the utmost care ( sometimes from scratch ), to get near perfection, with a particular set of speakers (same with home theater), the miniscule differences between a moderate priced amp and a mega buck amp, is senseless. I have been there, and I have done that. The equipment thing, that is. I was never so fortunate, as to have the real deal, in a room design. However, I had many clients, and friends, who have. A better room/speaker/listener set up, will always bring more musical satisfaction, to me, and them, than spending more money on equipment, especially amplification. Again, this is imo and experience. I am a music listener first, and an audiophile 2nd. What this means is, I want the musicianship, within the recordings, to show up 1st. I want the playing, to start, and stop, on a dime, and cohesively. I want the players to perform, together. I want to capture the proper tone and weight, of the voices and instruments, before I can pinpoint where they are, in front of me. Did I mention dynamics. Live, unamplified music has it. So many mega systems I have listened to, fail, in what I am looking for. Mind you, I am not suggesting I hear better than anyone else. I just know what I am listening for, to please me, something that has taken many years to get to. In a way, I am lucky. I know I am blabbing. The fact of the matter is, if a speaker/room/listener situation, is better to begin with, the cost of the amp is less important, because, in the end, the subtle differences in amps are not as beneficial to a properly set up room. Those that can afford to do both, more power to them. My system, and my room, really does it for me, as again, I am a lucky listener. MrD.

MrD.,

I've read and reread what you wrote. I agree that the room is the most important "component" in a system. My experience has taught me that the dimensions of the room and how difficult the speakers are to drive can create significant differences between amplifiers, if the amplifier isn't capable of driving the speakers. I say, "think of how big your room is, the sensitivity of your speakers, type of music you listen to, how loud you listen, your preferences, and your budget." I guess my 25 years of experience has given me a different perspective than you. I feel more than ever, "if you have the money" and those so called "subtle" differences mean something to you, than spend the money. Details and subtle differences are what usually cost more money no matter what the hobby is!

Ricred1. Subtleties in a better amp, are audible, but, cannot eliminate problems in a room. If anything, it would amplify them, no pun intended. There are many $2-3 K amplifiers that have the "beef" to drive the 3.7s, to realistic levels, without the panels being the weak link. I did say, go for broke, if you can, just acknowledging the importance of the room. Sorry if I was unclear. I also feel, a better front end (source), generally gets you more musical information. My comments were based on the use of the 3.7s, in particular, but, do carry over to all speakers. They do, however, dictate the room size, positioning, acoustics, and all else that you mention. More so than many speakers. Keep in mind, I own, and listen to, very efficient, and, dynamic speakers. Just enjoy ! Mr.D.

Mr.D.,
I'm very familiar with your speakers. I've owned Klipsch Heresy's, La Scala's, and Klipschorn's...the most dynamic speakers that I've ever owned. I agree, just enjoy!

Just another comment. Rhanson739, does make mention in his original post, that the room might be problematic, as are some of the recordings. Just saying........Enjoy all ! Mr.D

Mr.D, RHansen's amp appears to be prone to failures. The tendency to such behavior has been remarked elsewhere and elsewhen on Agon for the Kryptobrand in question. It is unlikely that such regretable disposition is influenced by room geometry or other acoustic properties of his listening space. Furthermore, the amp has a high damping factor commensurate with the requirements of Maggie 3.7.

G.

Guidocorona. I appreciate the explanation. However, in Rhanson's original post, he speaks highly of his amp, and, he does mention at times, of a sharpness or harshness, attributable to the room. Did I miss something ? MrD

Yes Mr.D, prima face encounters with reality can be on occasion subtly deceptive. In our particular instance, the taxonomy of the device under consideration would place it withinthe the citrus family of fruiting plants, and most likely to that genus well known for producing oblate globes sporting bright yellow bumpy rinds.

Regardless of any marginal acidulation of the sound, which I have encountered more than once with this amp, the creature appears to be radically flaking out, hence Rhansen's quest for an operationally reliable alternative to the lemon.

G.

I would try asl hurricanes with them

Wow, Guido... wanna be my mouthpiece? Great bit of writing, especially "Kryptobrand."

I appreciate the ongoing conversation about this. Thanks to all.

I agree that the room is one of the most critical components, and I have done as much as I can to address that part. Thing is, we don't have a separate, dedicated listening room, though to look at our living room, you'd see that it's pretty much devoted to this sport. My gratitude goes to my wife, who allows it to be like this... overrun with large speakers, equipment rack, and room treatments all over the place. Gads... I love that woman!

It is a challenging room, to be sure. One huge opening in the back wall to a dinette/kitchen, a smaller one to a dining room. Opening on the front left to a back hallway. Certainly less than optimal. We've worked with treatments to the extent possible, and it does make a difference.

Now, an update -- We installed and listened to a demo pair of the Merrill VERITAS mono blocks last night. First impression: Wow! What an improvement over Kryptobrand.

Smoother than ever. Spacious. Holographic (most of the time.) Non-fatiguing. No etch or glare that I sometimes got from Krypto. Power to spare, and then some. Effortless. I observed last night that some of what I might have heard in Krypto indeed *was* switching. Interesting...

Truth be known, after an extensive cut-by-cut session last night, I must have put on Mickey Hart's "At the Edge", which pretty much knocked us into oblivion. We woke up at about 2:30AM and went to bed. Engaging? Yup.

As Guido said -- in a wonderfully loquacious way -- Kryptobrand has been a lemon for me. Luck of the draw, as I said, in that some others do not share my experiences. When it works, it works rather well, but I'm tired of dealing with its issues. And this is across three iterations of the product. My patience with it is worn down to the nub.

Analogluvr -- ASL Hurricanes?

A quick look at pictures online, and all I saw was a sea of glass fire tubes.

No thanks.

Yes, perhaps I'd be missing something by not trying them... like a whole new sport of tube rolling; testers; expense; failure points; heat in the already scorching environment of North Carolina; etc. etc.

I appreciate the reference, but will pass those by due to my aversion to tubes.

If Rhanson, in his original post, indicated that the amp was failing, and unreliable, as he did not, I would never had put my 2 cents in......the way I read it, the amp was wonderful..........Enough from me.........Enjoy ! MrD.

Mr D -- Why that kind of response?

I appreciate your input, and as mentioned above, have done everything reasonably possible to tame the room.

Once again, I didn't name the manufacturer because I do not want to disparage them. Some people love their product. That's just not my experience. The company is going through some tough times, and I do not want to add to their difficulties.

By the way, I created the original post on 6/27, and highlighted the problematic nature of my situation in a reply on 6/28. You did not reply to this thread until 7/11. So, I'm not sure why you're saying, "If Rhanson, in his original post, indicated that the amp was failing, and unreliable, as he did not, I would never had put my 2 cents in..."

Did you not read the thread before putting your 2 cents in? If not, then there's really no good reason to mute yourself because of some perceived transgression on my part.

Rhanson, I was not alone. Shakeydeal and Nonoise assumed the same. We did not read your response to Guido. My response was based on your original post. Sorry......MrD.

How about PS Audio BHK Signature...?

Mr D,

I did not mention the manufacturer because I did not want to disparage them. While they make a good product that many enjoy, I have not had the luck of the draw in terms of reliability.

Nor have some others. I am curious about, and under informed about, any voltage or impedance mismatches that might be occurring here, but I will say that my issues have been reported by others who own the same amp, so perhaps my problems are not that unique, nor related to my setup.

Magnepan does not know of this issue.

I would truly love it if someone could look at the specs of my system and say, "There! no wonder!", but no one has pointed to anything obvious.

Can you?

It could just be that this amp is prone to failures. I'm certainly not the only one to experience exactly the same issues.

As for true solutions, I'm all ears, and willing to be educated about it.

Thanks. I hope you can provide some insights.

Rhanson. If you read your original post, and please do, you do not mention you had a reliability issue with your amp. You, in fact, make accolades about how wonderful your system was, including the amp, as being part of your system, but, still wanted to improve upon it. You could have indicated, without mentioning the manufacturer, it was problematic and unreliable, and that was the reason for the post. I read your post, and took your post, literally. So did others. I am moving on. Enjoy ! Mr.D.

Mr. D:

Sure, I could have, but I didn't. Get over it, or "move on", because it's no big deal in the overall scheme of things. Your complaint seems to continually stray from the point of the thread.

(I also don't know why my post from 7/10 was duplicated on 7/12. I think Agon burped.)

@Infection --

Actually, I was on the list to receive one of the first run of the PS Audio BHK. Sadly, I had to back off because of a temporary financial issue, but in retrospect, I'm glad that I did. Considering the troubles I've had with the current amp, it is probably best for me not to be one of the early adopters. The BHK was, of course, an unknown beast at the time.

I hear some people love it. I wish PS Audio all the success... they're a pretty remarkable company.

~
Update:

Based on various recommendations in this thread, I've been demoing a pair of Merrill VERITAS mono blocks for about a week. They sound quite good, and are definitely a contender for my new amp.

Later today, I'll be receiving a Sanders Audio Magtech (stereo) to try for a while.

Kryptobrand has returned home and has been tested out.

This should be an interesting weekend...

Exciting... Rob, keep us posted! G.

It has been a couple of weeks since this whole process started, so I thought I'd give an update. Thanks to everyone here for the suggestions, and special thanks to my new friend, Guido. Guido has been an enormous help both in terms of information, and an inherent willingness to vicariously spend my money. :)

- The Merrill Veritas monoblocks turned out to be the ones to beat, and they are still here.

- Sanders Magtech went down pretty quickly. I believe in amp break-in. Roger Sanders does not. He submits that his amp at one hour of warmup will sound as it ever will. After a couple of days, I decided that I didn't like it, and he graciously took the return.

- Bel Canto REF600M monos came in, and I had a chance to give them a thorough listen, thanks to Taylor at Goldprint Audio. Taylor was very responsive to all of my questions, and provided the amps shockingly quickly. They only had about 300 hours on them, so I'm not sure if they were really broken in, but in head-to-head with the VERITAS, they didn't make the cut. Mind you, the REF600 is no slouch at all, and I could have happily lived with them, but we moved on.

- Currently, I have the VERITAS going up against the Rowland Continuum S2. The CS2 has only about 300 hours on it, so I'm not sure how well broken in it is. And I must say, although the two amps sound rather different -- at least at this stage of the game -- it will be a tough decision. The VERITAS is fully broken in, the Rowland is not, and I have a limited amount of time to make the decision.

Rob

Audio Research or Ayre is the way to go. Anything else will disappoint

Hey Rob, I do pride myself to guide my friends on an audiophilic path of financial irresponsibility *grins!*

Both Rowland Continuum S2 and Merrill Veritas are valiant contenders with similar power dlivery.

The Rowland Continuum S2 in your system has probably a good four weeks of signal grinding in front of it before it is completely stabilized.

Rob,

I have the JR S2 and curious of how it compares to the Veritas. Totally happy with the S2 and not looking to replace anything, but love to hear how it compares to something as highly thought of as the Veritas.

Ricred1,

I'll be posting a comparison here before too long.

Rhanson739, in-home demonstration must be like doctors making housecalls. I am going to recommend the H-Cat amp. You would want the X-10 version, but if you can find one of the older models, for $2000, you have it converted into an X-10.

Only about ten or twenty of us have heard this new version and I know of many of them. All of us are incredulous of what we hear. It has a soundstage that just lays to waste any other amp I've ever heard.

I was fortunate and had kept both their amp and linestage in a secondary system. Now both are coming home to my big system.

Tbg,

Thanks for the input. If that's the same X10 I'm looking at online, then I don't believe 100W RMS is going to cut it when driving the Maggies. They are thirsty speakers.

Rhanson739, I am not able to say why, but I have found the amp has more than enough power for my 91 db efficiency Arcadias and 88 db LSA1 Statements. I see that the 20.7s are 86 db. You might want to go to their webpage and ask.

Hi Norm, Rhansen's speakers are the Maggie 3.7. I believe their efficiency being 83 or 84dB.

G.

Guidocorona, they are also 4 ohms, which would suggest no problem.

The Maggie's are 86db and tend to 4 ohms.

No matter. A decision has been made. It does not involve the H-cat, for any of a number of reasons.

Oh boy... Wrong twice in one single day... I must be getting old *grins!* G.

~
Well, the next of kin have been notified...

The winner is: Rowland Continuum S2 integrated.

The Merrill VERITAS held off all comers up to the last. They were the amps to beat.

Favoring the Rowland is a one-box solution, input versatility, company reputation, build quality, and, of course, sound over everything. The notes come from Mordor, a place of utter blackness. Considering my rather highly-resolving system, it was nice to hear a balanced, rounded, darker, almost tube-like sound versus the extreme, seizure inducing detail I've become accustomed to. Soundstage is immense. Bass is like I've never heard in my room before. As I've heard said lately, "It's easier to listen to without listening."

The Veritas' were certainly no slouch. Merrill himself is great to work with, and he has some high-performing amps to offer. I've always sorta wanted monoblocks, and they look great in the room, offering up fine sound against a noiseless background. Matt from the 'Absolute Top-Tiered DAC' thread said that he had to buy hyper-expensive Burmester amps to better the Veritas, and I don't doubt that at all. I would certainly recommend Veritas quite highly.

And Guido... Guido is a gift to the audiophile community. He helped me to navigate strange waters to lead me to the best solution. Thanks so much, Guido!

Hi Rob, thank you for your kind words... As you know, I just love driving my friends into financial irresponsibility *grins!*

you had some great contenders in your thorough in-home audition... Merrill Veritas monos, Rowland Continuum S2 integrated, and Bel Canto Ref600 monos are all "performance heavies" in their own right!

Saluti, Guido

Guido,

Let's not forget kryptobrand. Keeping it was also an option. Not a great option, considering where class-d has evolved to, but a worthy option nonetheless.

Rhanson739, You are making a mistake, but we only learn through our mistakes.
Guido, you were once supposed to coming over to College Station, well you still are and once I get back to Texas if you can hear this H-Cat X-10 line stage and amp.

Tbg --

"Rhanson739, You are making a mistake,..."

Oh, that's just such a special, adorable way of putting it. To complete that sentence with the patronizing and condescending addition of "...we only learn through our mistakes" just polishes it up to a real shine.

I'd prefer to think of this as a process of reading, learning, asking hundreds of questions, querying others for their opinions, spending cash, arranging shipments, hours and hours of warmup, hours and hours of critical listening and adjusting, and more than a few hours of trepidation while trying to weigh each decision.

Besides, if you've been following the thread, you might recall my post of 7-1-15 where I said, "I also fear for the future of the company, as things have changed radically there." Such things are a big factor when weighing my choices. Maybe not so much for you, I guess.

Mistake? Nope. I'm perfectly happy with my choice, thanks. The CS2 is a great sounding amp.

Thank you Norm, I'll visit College Station as soon as the Texas DOT issues me a driver's license... Have to wait until I can obtain an ocular transplant... The Dinosaurs at DOT insist that they won't take action until I can see the road in front of me.

But there are rumors that there might be a Fall expedition to College Station courtesy of Nick Schultz... Could be loads of fun!

Meantime, I am confident that H-Cat sounds wonderful... Rest assured that so does the Rowland Continuum S2 selected by RHansen.

G.

Guidocorona, funny, those dinosaurs!

How many are coming with Nick Schultz and for what reason?

I have heard the Rowland at CES.

Norm, the descent of the Northern Brbarians on College Station was mentioned as a possible interesting excursion sometimes in the fall... The topic was mentioned as a "BTW" for approximately 10 seconds... It might involve possibly visiting you... I have no further information.

G.