B&W Matrix 801 Series II

Wow! You have some serious gear! Great looking room. Your 801s look better than the ones I am looking at which are an Oak finish I would guess. They kind of look like Early American furniture, really dated.

The room is a nice size because it is a studio connected to the house by a walkway but otherwise separate. (I am a musician so I have to have a studio to play in.) I live on 10 acres with my nearest neighbor being about 300 yards from me so I get quite loud, a lot. I have had a full PA system set up in there but it really wasn't clean enough so now my main system is the Mac stuff through the Khorns. I listen to a lot of acoustic Americana type stuff along with classic rock and blues. I try to keep one system loud enough so I can play a guitar through an amp and play along with the music. I do this a lot because that is how i figure out music to play it. I do also listen for extended periods at reasonable volumes, too.

I sit at least 15' from the speakers. I like to have two stereo set ups in the studio, one loud and the other doesn't matter as long as it sounds good. I like my main system but I feel the Khorns probably need to be rebuilt and there are probably better choices in speakers for me, although I don't currently know what they are. I have some Cornwalls I may try and rebuild if that is a better option than the 801s. I have always concentrated on my music gear so now, for a time, I want to get my stereo gear up to par and it is a field I am not that versed in nor do I have much opportunity to hear good equipment.

I have been planning to go SS in second system. I don't want it to be like the first. I will have the guy that is selling the speakers check them out for me if I decide I may want them. He is selling them on consignment and isn't too impressed with them but I know him well so he will help me all he can.

The speakers don't have the BAF.

Nothing excessive in your post. You would be surprised at what I learned reading it. Actually, I reread it several times. I am trying to learn and make some good decisions and it is hard when you don't know what you're doing. I appreciate all of the good information. Keep it coming>

Wemfan, you can find a lot of information about the speakers here, listed as "Matrix 801 S2"

http://bwgroupsupport.com/

After reading your post about playing "quite loud", I think it is necessary to consider speaker sensitivity, 801s (87db), Cornwalls (102db), Khorns (105db). A decrease of 3db in speaker sensitivity means that double the power is needed to maintain the same system capability. As an example, should it require just 5 watts for a dynamic peak on the Khorn, then that same dynamic peak would require 320 watts on the 801. Here is a good online calculator you can use for different senarios,

http://www.allegrosound.com/Power_AllegroSound.html

IMHO, the large room with distance from the speaker and playing "quite loud" 801's just might not be a good choice for this application. Playing loud on any speaker that is underpowered can easily result in blown tweeters.

Depending on the age of the Klipsch speakers, many people think the older original drivers were better than some of the newer ones, although crossovers may need attention. I have a friend that is a Klipsch fanatic. Do a google search for, KLIPSCH HERITAGE REFERENCE DATA - (V.2 - 9 May 2008) and download the pdf. This is complete data by serial number on all the Heritage series.
Here is a good source for rebuild/mod to your Klipsch speakers,

http://www.critesspeakers.com/

Also, I think Zu Audio speakers would work well for your application. A few years ago while working at an A/V retailer, a fellow employee told me that SRV's guitar sounded more realistic on his Zu Audio speakers than on the B&W 802D/Mcintosh MC402 at the store.

http://www.zuaudio.com/

They've certainly have stood the test of time, and they're the most well known high end speaker from the 80s. But, as others said, you need a lot of power, highest quality cables (bi wire,) high quality preamp and sources, bass alignment filter, and good stands. However, if you have carpet on concrete floor, listening to them with just the castors is not bad at all, imo.

First, realize that you will get some polarizing answers on this site, as there are some who dislike the B&W sound.

You should check out the review of this exact model at the Stereophile website : http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/506/index.html. Note the follow up with the graphs. There is also another article, where they asked John Bowers (the B of B&W)how he tested his studio monitors for accuracy. He replied that he used panels of musicians, recorded cuts, then they listened to playbacks of the recordings on the speakers. They then tweaked the speakers based on feedback from the musicians.

IMHO,you would be hard pressed to find a full range brand new pair at this price & quality.

There are some who say that they do not image & soundstage realistically - not true. They will reproduce what is on the recording. If you know someone who has the Decca/London AIDA w/ Karajan (CD or LP), & if you look at the photos of recording session of Triumphal march session, you can clearly hear the precise placement of the various singers, choirs, stage band, etc. in both L-R and front to back positions. The vocals are precise in space, properly sized, not overly large in the soundstage.

Some say they cannot play rock or Jazz well. Nonsense. Listen to Coltrane's Crescent album or Tal Wilkenfeld's Transformation CD, or Zep's Achilles Last Stand (Presence). The bass lines go deep, are punchy, but you can still delineate the actual notes, plus the kick drums clearly punch through electric bass.

They are the monitors used by most classical labels (Universal Music Group, Pentatone), Abbey Road, Skywalker Sound. Epica (Dutch Symphonic Metal Band ) albums were monitored using I believe BW Nautilus 802's (They can be seen on one of the DVD documentaries that came w/ the album).

All this being said, there are several caveats.
They will not editorialize the sound. So many rock & pop recordings will sound as bad as they truly are (Van Halen albums come to mind). That's a personal decision. I want to hear what is there. On the MFSL CD reissue of Ronstadt's Prisoner in Disguise ,she is truly in the room w/ you/ but the speaker also reveals that the drums were recorded in a tiny control space (or miked to closely). Check out the SACD of Shelby Lynne's Just A Little Lovin' for a "you are there" experience.

They will reveal what is upstream, so if you use less than stellar front end equipment, they will show it. Don't even think about using a receiver to drive them. These babies are rather inefficient (87 db), and can take up to 600W. I'd recommend at least 150 : 200-250 would be better. You also want an amp that can comfortably drive speaker impedances of 4 Ohms. They also need to be properly placed w/in the room.

It's true that the weak link of this speaker is the crossover. I've upgraded mine. You also do need the bass alignment filter, which did not always come with the original purchase. Some people say it muddies the sound, but I prefer to use it. I've also upgraded this to an aftermarket product. That being said, I could happily live w/ the speaker stock.

You should check the surrounds on the drivers, especially the woofer units. If the owner took proper care, they should NOT be deteriorated. The drive units are no longer available from B&W. The speakers really need to be on dedicated stands to reach their potential (Sound Anchors). The speakers came with metal spikes that screwed into the bottom. You should also check that the bottom cover is not cracked. This is where the crossover is. The cover itself is rather flimsy.

I bought mine in 1989. When the Signature 800 came out in the early 2000's for the then outrageous amt. of $20K, I was seriously thinking about upgrading, but was talked out of it by a local dealer, who thought that the cost did not justify the increase in performance.

Hope this helps.

Elee, I do agree with the comments in your post as I have listened to 801’s many times , and owned a pair of Matrix 802’s some years ago.

My post is based on an experience I had while working at a B&W dealer. Sold a customer some B&W’s, not 801’s, but a lesser model that had a sensitivity of 88-90db, with quality electronics. Then he started having trouble with blown tweeters, so we repaired, increased power to maximum for the speaker, and he still had problems. So I went to his home and discovered he was doing exactly what Wemfan described, playing his guitar as he played the system. I then swapped the B&W speakers for some Klipsch towers with a much higher sensitivity. He was happy with the change because the system did what he wanted it to do, and never had another problem.

I’m not saying anything bad about the 801’s, I just think they are the wrong speaker for how Wemfan would try to use them.