break-in--bane or boon ??

"Mapman - Is it just me or did you just completely misconstrue Ivan's
comments to fit your "placebo effect explains it all away"
agenda. :-)"

Read what I said. I did not say any single thing explains anything away. I said that there can be many factors including an individuals variable perceptions, which is one often overlooked.

Geof, I am not a vendor. You are. I have no vested interest in influencing people one way or another. Most vendors do and I would not exclude you.

Recently read this as it applies to speaker drivers.

http://www.gr-research.com/myths.htm

Seems to make sense for moving parts. Certainly heard dramatic effects after just transporting speakers and letting them settle for just an hour.

Can't confirm anything but also read several claims that some capacitors can take 100 hours to "burn in" while others may take just a few minutes.

Mapman wrote,

""Mapman - Is it just me or did you just completely misconstrue Ivan's
comments to fit your "placebo effect explains it all away" comment?"" (Geoff's comment)

"Read what I said. I did not say any single thing explains anything away. I said that there can be many factors including an individuals variable perceptions, which is one often overlooked."

Geez, sorry, I must have been reacting to your snake oil industry comment. :-)

"geoff, I am not a vendor. You are. I have no vested interest in influencing people one way or another. Most vendors do and I would not exclude you."

I suspect everyone here on this forum wishes to influence people, why else would we take part in these discussions, and sometimes argue so strenuously? So, of course you have a vested interest in influencing people. And that is why you post so frequently on controversial topics, one assumes.

09-06-12: Nonoise
The changes I've heard during break in usually take me by surprise. I'm not expecting it, it just happens. My brain is in its usual auto mode when I hear the difference. It's when I'm listening for listenings sake. Nothing scientific here. This is with recordings I'm very familiar with. It's like I'm being tapped on the shoulder (ear). Subtle, yes, but noticeable.

That's when I focus my attention. That's when I break out other familiar recordings to see what else parallels what I'm hearing, or compliments with other areas of improvement. This is usually followed by one or two more levels of improvement, over time, and then no more.

It's something I've come to expect but not anticipate.

But how do you know that you are not, on a significant fraction of those occasions, attributing the change to the wrong variable? And that the change is not actually due to one of the several different kinds of extraneous variables I listed in my earlier post in this thread, or to tube aging, or to the kinds of variables you and others have been discussing in this thread, such as changes in humidity, differences in the power levels of AM radio transmissions during the day vs. the evening, changes in power quality, etc.

Not to mention, as indicated by me and others above, some degree of change in the breakin status of transducers that can occur and re-occur periodically, depending on how frequently they are used and also perhaps on what they are used to play.

And doesn't it also stand to reason that once your attention has focused on a perceived change, and you then "break out other familiar recordings to see what else parallels what I'm hearing, or compliments with other areas of improvement," that in doing so there is an increased likelihood that you will perceive things that may have been present in those recordings all along, but you were not previously as conscious of?

I'm certainly not saying that ALL perceptions of breakin-related changes of cables or electronic components are being attributed to the wrong thing. But my point is that without a methodology that includes the kind of disciplined comparison Doug has described, it is all too easy for that to happen. Ultimately resulting in belief systems evolving that are self-reinforcing as well as misleading.

Best regards,
-- Al

Ivan wrote,

"But, here’s the thing, if I understand it right and if I can manage to do
the concept any justice: what I also believe is happening in this response is
that the brain is also playing some additional roles in this in that, in effect
and to a degree, it begins subtly suppressing, or filtering out, sensory
perception in our consciousness. Mainly this is a survival mechanism,
which in effect may be an evolutionary advantage to help keep us from
losing the initiative (both in terms of instinctual decision making and in
terms of the differing brain functions that facilitate it) of our brains being
able to suddenly process a dramatically swift and near-global shift in our
state of consciousness from, say (among perhaps many other examples),
the state of our deep and extended (read: relaxed and open) involvement
with our connection to our immediate environment or surroundings to that
of the brain actively controlling and preparing virtually our entire body for
possible, all-out ‘war’ – the moment of the impending “fight-or-flight”
decision."

Exactly! And because the phenomenon - the mind picking up on external
stimulii like a radio receiver - is largely subconscious and automatic we
cannot control it consciously.