Bricasti M1 DAC vs PS Audio Direct Stream DAC
As I said above.....my friend in Pocoima would love to A/B his modded Yggy with a Bricasti or a Yale DS DAC or other super DAC like an Empirical or Lampy. I can get you in touch with him....An A/B in the same place with both warmed up (he can leave his DAC at your place for a few day, even) will definitely tell us which does what. Anyone in SoCal want to play? |
The person who had the bone stock Yggy burned it in and A/Bed with the fully burned in MSB Analog DAC. He uses the top of the line Coincident speakers, preamp and amp and a bunch of $4700 Hi Fidelity cables.....a very revealing system.....he said the Yggy was just as detailed.....you don't believe him? I believe what you say about what you hear when you A/B. He has no agenda....he sold the Yggy because it was not as musical....but he would not try any of the mods that I suggested because he was to fearful. So far the stock Yggy has beaten all DACs it has been A/Bed with except that MSB and a $10,000 TotalDAC......but these guys did not listen to the simple but very transforming mods that my friend did to his Yggy and shown on my site. And these mods are just the beginning!!!!! But fear will keep most (99.9%) from doing these mods. Men are so stodgy....wish there were more woman in this game...they would be more experimental and open. Anything can be modded to sound much, much better...Never saw a compenent that was as good as possible stock. I am not the only one who could do this.....there are lots of serious tweakers out there. How do you know a Directstream will "blow the doors off" the stock Yggy let alone a modded one when you have never heard one......sounds like you are very, very scared. The fear of loss.....it runs us all. I prefer the "lets see what we can do with this to make it super" mode myself. A lot more fun! Please give up the fear....enjoy the ride. If the modded Yggy turns out to be much better than the stock Bricasti then you could sell the Bricasti for much more than a modded Yggy would cost....then there is no loss....in fact, you would pocket some money. There is no end to this game....whatever product (especially digital) you covet today will eventually be yesterdays toy....."Who wants yesterdays papers?....who want yesterdays girl(DAC)?....no body in the world".....please sing along....dance too. Its all dust in the wind. We are eternal love. We are not our toys.....they are just tools to experience more love. The tools change....the love remains...always. |
I heard the Bricasti M1 DAC a few months ago in a show room and I heard the Berkeley Reference DAC in a different show room. Two different systems. The Bricasti M1 was OK but I was impressed with the Berkeley Reference DAC. But now that PS Audio has come out with the Yale firmware for their DS DAC the gap is narrowed to such an extent that I would think twice and 3 times before jumping to a more expensive DAC. PS Audio have done something exceptional with the Yale firmware. The 1.2.1 and 1.2.2 (Pike's Peak) FW pale in comparison. With Yale you have a whole new DAC at a superior performance level. PS Audio is planning at least one more firmware upgrade for the DS DAC. As it now stands, the DS DAC is the best DAC value that I know of -- by a country mile. People have been dumping them on Audiogon in recent months. The DS needs 500 hours to break in. So, perhaps these folks were simply impatient, or perhaps the synergy was not there with their system. In any case, they did not wait for the Yale firmware. If DS DAC owners hang in there they will be handsomely rewarded, in my experience. IMO. FWIW. |
Ricevs I am sure you could make the Bricasti sound more toward your liking but " making it way, way better" I am not buying it. There is a lot more going on at this level of product than just throwing some top shelf parts at it. I guarantee that! Tweak the sound to work better with your speakers in your system sure but it is a very accurate DAC, well executed that sounds very good. Now I do believe many products can be improved with modding. I have seen it and done it and appreciate it and I don't doubt the Bricasti or any audio product can be improved with modding. Brian makes one of the best pro Reverbs on the planet for pro studios and he offers inexpensive upgrades frequently but he offers genuine, accurate, universal upgrades that sound and measure excellent. I can tell you that many people on this site spend more on power cables than on a Bricasti DAC and resale is not stopping these folks that I am sure of. Regardless of what one guy said I will take the sound of the wonderful MSB Analog DAC 1,000 out of 1,000 times over any modded schiit DAC regardless... Sorry but that company doesn't even beat out the better 2k to $3k DACs out there never mind the fabulous MSB Analog DAC... I get it your trying to get their name out there that's fine but let that DAC beat out the others in its price range first then talk about mods...I would find a deal on a nice and clean, used DirectStream for not that much more than one of these Schiits and it will Blow its Doors off!!!! |
No one does mods on anything over $1300.....the Oppo 105D is the only thing being modded by anyone. People are afraid of losing resale value. I could mod a Bricasti in many ways to make it way, way better.....no one would do it. NO ONE. This is what makes the Yggy so exciting. Already with a few mods it is way, way better. One guy thought that stock it was as detailed as the $11,500 MSB Analog DAC he had there that had the separate power supply and the latest 4X usb input option. He said the MSB stock was more musical.......but all the mods my friend did to the Yggy made it more detailed and at least half of them made it more musical.....this means it is now way more detailed than the MSB and probably as musical. And this is a $2300 product with a couple hundred dollars worth of mods.....this is pretty cool. However, getting anyone else to mod their Yggy is very, very hard. Fear of loss is what rules most people.....not finding out what is possible. |
My friend has modified Yggdrasil DAC and would love to A/B with a Bricasti. He is in Pocoima, CA. If you have a Bricasti he could bring his DAC over or visa versa. The Yggy modified is pretty killer......might be better than Bricasti. See post here for pics of mods....More mods coming. I will post more of his listening comments soon: http://www.tweakaudio.com/EVS-2/Schiit_mod.html |
The original question asks about the Bricasti Bricasti Design Model 1 USB DAC. I just found the Dagogo web site and a review of the Bricasti Design Model 1 USB DA. Dagogo states the following (this is an exact quote from the review in the quotes): "I will start this review of the Bricasti Design Model 1 USB DAC by taking out all of the suspense. The M1 is one of the best DACs available on the market at any price. In fact, when used in the right system it is actually a bargain, since it allows you to eliminate a preamp. It also gives tweakers a huge range of filter options that adjust the sound. Finally, its a great looking piece of equipment that youll be proud to feature on your equipment stand. The M1 is so good that there is no need for a long review theres simply nothing in the way of a weakness. Any DAC thats better is not better because of a shortcoming in the M1. Now thats out of the way, lets get to the details. "I actually cut an entire page of additional detail that I wrote about the Bricasti M1. After I reread the draft review it seemed like the additional information actually detracted from the main point: the Bricasti M1 is an elite DAC regardless of price. Instead, I was looking for an analogy outside the audiophile world. I came across a review of the Bricasti where the reviewer stated that the M1 is an understated performer, one that doesnt necessarily scream for attention. I understand exactly what he meant, though I would add some clarification. The Bricasti M1 is understated in the sense that Jackie Robinson made baseball look easy and Stevie Ray Vaughn made playing blues guitar look easy. They may have made it look easy, but you knew you were in the presence of greatness. Thats the Bricasti M1". See: http://www.dagogo.com/bricasti-design-model-1-usb-dac-review You might have to copy this link into your browser. |
Wow Fsmith that's a big leap of faith! I do wish you the best it will be interesting to see what you think. I too just received my own Bricasti M1 and have to say it's the first time I now listen to digital, this coming from an analog guy. Yes I still feel analog sounds superior but now I can listen for hrs thru the M1 and not be fatigued. Can I ask why you didn't consider the Bricasti M28 amps? I heard them and even though I'm a tube guy thought they sounded wonderful. Am hoping to get to hear them for a longer time to see if it's something that may be an option. Enjoy your new set-up and keep all posted. (Dealer disclaimer) |
Rather than pure pink noise, you might want to use the CASCADE burn-in track provided for free from TARA Labs. |
Wow, Frank, you're a true fearless audio cliffdiver! That's quite a leap. Great to know that amp/speaker match will have perfect synergy. Here's my advice: 1) Break-in: Resist the urge to judge anything until plenty of break-in time. Use pink noise on repeat overnights. 2) Setup: Take your time with room setup and read the archives to suggestions. Start w/manufs' advice and consider the setup calculations on Cardas website. 3) AFTER the get a feel for the rig & room, then try rolling the 6922s. Current production won't be near the level of many great options including pricey Tungsol 7308, the crisp Telefunkens, my value-fav the Amperex Bugle Boys, bargain Valvos & Tunsgrams, and others. Read Joe's Tube Lore: http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html Cheers, Spencer |
Hey Jon Good idea. I am going to have to try this! I have wanted to try this type of vibration control mod. Hey guys: I just pulled the trigger on new speakers and amps to take full advantage of my Bricasti. I was struggling to find the right amps for my speakers to the point of then getting into swapping speakers so I just went hole hog and made a "HUGE CHANGE"! With my Bricasti and its great volume control / output stage it made my BAT and ARC preamps pretty much obsolete. I prefer the Bricasti M1 with no pre and not by a small amount. That said my preamps, speakers and amps are now gone. I have gone in an entirely different direction and I am super excited and nervous at the same time. My new speakers and amps should be here next week. For the first time I am purchasing amps that were specifically designed and made for my speakers by the same designer from the same company. Something new for me ! I have my digital front end nailed down pretty good with my Bricasti M1 DAC and I didn't want to get back onto the amp-merry-go-round so I thought this was a great choice for me. I love the dynamics, bass, grip and precise control of Solid Stage but I love the sound of tubes. I really fell for what a good solid state amp can do but missed tubes. That said I have decided to take the plunge and purchased new speakers and a new amp from a real small boutique company in India that I hope can offer some of the best of both worlds: Rethm Saadhana Speakers (2015): The speakers are single / driver / high efficiency / wide banders with a self powered built in bass module. Here is the info: Rethm Saadhana Speakers (2015): 103db, 18hz-20khz, 8ohm Minimum amplification power: 2 wpc Full Range - Horn loaded labyrinth:(7" 4") length Full range driver: Custom designed 7 inch paper cone w/whizzer w/ Custom designed Self driven bass modules: 3 Bass Drivers per enclosure 3 x 6.5 inch paper cone Sealed Isobaric chamber: Bass labyrinth:( 4' 8" ) w/ one monobloc per enclosure FET amplifier Max. output: 210 wpc @ 4 ohms Dimensions: H x D x W : 3'-5" )x( 2'-4 ½" )x( 8.5" ) Weight per enclosure: 88 lbs Here is the matching amp that comes in 2 boxes. 1 - box holds all the tubes and the other holds the power supply tethered by a cable. They look like mono blocks but are attached by the cable and it is an integrated, stereo amp. Rethm Gaanam Integrated amp. They don't list all the specs per say but here some info if your interested. It interested me enough to order these brand new speakers and amps and we have all chatted a lot so I wanted to share in the event your interested. This is a pretty unique amp that was again voiced and designed specifically to match the speakers perfectly. Here is the designer talking about designing the amp. The criteria we started with were the following: 1. It had to be between 10 and 20 wpc. 2. It had to be Single Ended pure class A. We use a unique circuit for the power amp section whereby the ONLY tubes are the output tubes. No gain stage tubes, no buffer tubes, no driver tubes. The preamp section provides more than adequate gain, and instead of driver tubes, we have small, custom designed "driver transformers". This enabled us to get a beautiful sound that had all the warmth and dimensionality that makes valves so unique, while enabling a clarity and dynamic that is not often found in traditional valve amplifiers. To enhance control, we decided on a solid state buffer in this amplifier. We also have zero feedback. After much experimenting with several valve types, we settled on a single-ended configuration using the 6C33C valve. It produces 16 wpc. The 6C33C valve is, on technical spec's itself, an amazing valve. It has an extremely high Trans-conductance value ( in excess of 30 mA/V -- as compared to the 12.5 of a KT 120 ) which facilitates much better current flow. And, it has an amazingly low Internal Resistance ( 130 ohms -- as compared to 3000 ohms on a KT 120 ) which is almost comparable to solid-state devices! This enables a much higher speed of signal voltage transfer. It also has very low anode voltages ( 120 v -- as compared to most valves that go from a few hundred volts to in excess of 1000 v in the case of the 845 valve ) -- which makes it a much safer device. The preamp section uses two 6922 valves, one per channel, and uses an extremely simple circuit. The power supply is choke regulated, and here again, we have zero feedback. We also get all our transformers (the output transformers, driver transformers, power transformer and choke) cryogenically treated as we see a substantial improvement in performance with greater transparency, detail retrieval and delicacy to the reproduction. Wish me luck guys. I took the plunge and took a chance that I can get that Tube and SS flavor and overall take my rig to the next level. Any advice or feedback or anything is always really appreciated. I know this is the Bricasti thread but we have talked a lot about other amps and speakers matching to the Bricasti and that kind of stuff so I wanted to update and share :) |
I tried this Audiophilleo 2 and really liked it so I upped the ante and got their pure power battery pack that pulls all of the computer power away and uses nice clean battery power and wholly smokes its soooo much better than a regular one. It doesn't do the double dsd and maxes out at 192 but its 1/2 the price than the 1. Its $1,000 for the 1 and $500ish for the 2 and all the options the extra options (volume control and color lcd and other stuff I don't need or care for and double the price for double dsd didn't seem make sense as the sound is identical but the pure power battery pack is a different story. It is excellent!! Highly recommended. Much better imo than the SOtm SMS-100 sound wise as well and is trouble free operation. Much better... |
From Sonore web: PRODUCT DESCRIPTION The Sonore Sonic Orbiter is an audiophile PCM, DSD/DoP and native DSD capable music renderer with Ethernet input and SotM USB or SPDIF/analog output. Your PC (you already have PC correct?) has Ethernet input and will have SotM USB output when you buy card. JRiver is PCM, DSD/DoP and native DSD capable music renderer. You're going to use USB to M1 connection so you don't need SPDIF/analog outputs. You don't need this Sonic Orbiter save yourself some money and spend on something else you need. BTW, nice alternative to PC is a good laptop, Brian is using this himself on audio shows. For critical listening you can always run it from batteries and charge overnight...It's silent as well, or almost silent:) Cheers, N |
Ya that helps a ton thanks. Jesus the US distributor for SOtM / Sonore thinks for a non computer expert like myself. I know a bit and can change out PCIe cards and stuff but nothing crazy. He said he thinks the Sonore Sonic Orbitor with the SOtM USB card you recommended option built in will be perfect. I can keep everything I am familiar with and it will let me keep my PC and and my JRiver and take advantage of my really good Tellurium Q Black Graphite USB cable I have invested in and don't I need to touch or change or really do anything other than plug it into my system. He said it is very stable and he said it sounds fantastic and it with my credit coming it will only be like $500.00 extra. It sounds great but I am not real familiar like you def seem to be so your feedback will be really appreciated. For this post if it goes great with my Bricasti or the folks with PS Audio DirectStream the folks on here might the like the idea of a all in unit under a $1000 that makes either of these great DACS much much better. They say the better the DAC the more improvement that can be heard and these are both great DACS. Would love any thoughts on this. Thanks |
Fsmithjack, Yes, SOtM is just ordinary PCIe card so you're good to go as long as you have available PCIe slot in your PC. One note tough, make sure you connect internal PSU from PC to card regardless of fact that you're going to use external battery PSU. This will step in ONLY in the case if for any reason card loses external PSU (accidentally un-plugged etc...) and will prevent damage to card itself ( see SOtM manual). For normal operation battery PSU is used all the time and you can hear improvement in sound immediately. Other thing to consider is that you go with Windows 8 (as suggested by Chris from CA) for better driver compatibility. Windows 8 will recognize SOtM card without problems but I would also suggest installing original (Texas Instruments) driver from SOtM website. I think I heard further improvement in sound after I did this. Bryston BDP-1 or BDP-2 are network/USB players and they act as PC, so you dont need PC if youre going to use these, neither you need SOtM card/Battery PSU. So you need to decide which way to go first but since you already have money in SOtM I dont see any reason giving that up. Sound wise Bryston players are excellent option since theyre actually customized Linux based PCs for audio. However I prefer PC based source since for its far more versatile and future proof. For example I rely on JRiver more than 5 years now, my library has almost 10000 albums. I spent countless hours getting all tags correctly and believe me this is not something thats get done automatically. I dont believe that BDP user interface/library capabilities are even close to JRiver. On the other hand I run Steinberg Wavelab and Izotope RX professional software for audio editing and restoration of vinyl rips from the same machine. With BDP player youre lock to music playback ONLY with limited options for upgrades in the future. I hope this helps. |
I am on the hunt for a BDP right now. I am going to go with the upgraded usb card by sotm like above mentioned because I have a credit with that company coming and get its battery powered linear power supply as well and i think this combo will work great with a bdp. looking for a used one as we write :). On loan from a local dealer I have a Clayton S-40 Class A 50 watt SS amp. Sounds exactly like a tube amp but better. Never have I heard such a pretty and tube sounding ss amp. Very Very nice... Solid can sound different now a days. |
I use a 1 Terabyte external hard drive. I've ripped my CDs via dbpoweramp on to the external hard drive and plug the USB cord into the BDP-2. It takes only a few seconds to upload the music. I control everything from my Ipad mini. It's very easy to create a play list or play an entire CD. Although I don't stream, you can stream music through the BDP-2. |
If I understand it correctly, what the BDP-1USB does is to allow you to plug a usb thumbdrive or solid state/hard disk drive directly into it without the need for a pc. You can of course still use your pc with JRiver. The other function is to connect it by Ethernet LAN cable to your router/NAS and to the Bricasti via usb. This seems to give the best possible SQ. |
Neno Thanks a ton, when I send back the SOtM mini servers I am asking him for one of these and the battery pack and am going to pay the difference will should only be a couple hundred which is nice. OK, so I assume putting the USB card in my computer is pretty easy like adding anything into a computer? Unplug and Open up the PC and then slip it in the slot and and then re-close up computer than download the driver and I should be good right? Also, what about the Battery Supply. I hope I can just plug that in after I do everything above? Will tha battery pack work ok with my Bricasti? So did you find this made a nice upgrade in SQ? Thanks for the help! |
1. Try SOtM tX-USBexp Audiophile PCIe to USB Audio Card / SOtM mBPS-d2s Intelligent Battery Power Supply. This is the best USB playback I have heard and it works flawlessly. I am using this for about a year now and never had a dropped connection. You can go without battery power supply if you want but since Bricasti needs 5v from USB this is the cleanest way to deliver it. 2. Other option, if you are willing to give up native DSD playback, would be Lynx AES16 audio card going AES connection to M1. This is what I used before and switched to USB only in order to have native DSD playback. |
Guys HOW ABOUT SOME MORE COMPUTER SOURCE SOUND QUALITY HELP" Really looking to keep my computer via usb for my source as I have a ton of music files that would cost a ton to replace via records or cd's. I want to get better sound from my source for my DAC. I tried the SOtM SMS-100 mini server for a while and liked the sound very much but it is super buggy and always dropping out and have to unplug and reboot. Way too much pain to use. They even sent me a second one and it was even worse. Sending them back. Any other idea's out there that are not crazy expensive. I think there is a huge opportunity here for improvment as I heard great improvement using the SOtM but there has to be something more user friendly to work with my Bricasti. Thanks |
Shsohis As far as up-sampling with oversampling you seem to know a lot more about that than I do for sure so I will let you be the authority on that. I just know what it says in the manual. At the end of the day for me regardless of what is used is how it sounds and what is the best to my ears IMO how ever we get there... " I certainly agree that Esoteric has far superior transport than OPPO that shouldnt be the reason SACD is sounding better " I can guarantee you that the transport at any level using any up-sampling and/or oversampling or non up-sampling or any medium be it ripped, streamed, downloaded, CD, SACD, any of it the actual transport has a gigantic impact on the sound. Way more than I ever thought. I have learned that mostly from when I started this thread and people brought it to my attention. So I am down digging around that rabbit hole now. |
Filter 0 is no filter at all according to Bricasti...I prefer it also but is it safe, since all hi-frequency noise which can be louder that signal itself on DSD is passed downstream to pre/amp/speakers. This could potentially damage the tweeters or even our ears especially if listening loud. This kind makes me uneasy to use filter 0 so i settled for best compromise which is filter 1. |
Fsmithjack, Lets not mix up-sampling with oversampling. Oversampling is always performed in synchronous mode and keeps original signal intact, at least every 8th sample (8x oversampling) will be original. Up-sampling is in most cases implemented in asynchronous mode where resulting signal doesnt contain any of original samples but only mathematically interpolated samples. Oversampling only adds values with approximation, the originals are unchanged. Regarding DSD comparison, you cant send DSD signal from either OPPO or Esoteric through SPDIF connection. OPPO can do that through HDMI but DAC with HDMI input is needed. My comparison refers to sound coming out of balanced XLR analog outputs of Esoteric and OPPO when SACD played comparing to DSD file ripped from the same SACD and played from JRiver over Dop to M1 usb input. And while I certainly agree that Esoteric has far superior transport than OPPO that shouldnt be the reason SACD is sounding better. For example I always preferred regular CDs and DVD-A ripped to wav files and played from PC through USB/M1 comparing to sound coming from Esoteric transport over the SPDIF. So, Im quite sure its about decoding of DSD signal itself because experience with PCM material is opposite and same transport is used. For DSP in JRiver I dont use anything except stereo mix-down to 2ch for movies which shouldnt affect regular stereo signals. Ill try suggestions you mentioned but this means that DSD will be converted to PCM in JRiver internally and sent to M1 as PCM correct? So looks like were comparing who does better job converting DSD to PCM, M1 or JRiver? Shsohis, Im using DSD1 filter for DSD and Minimum0 for PCM. I played with filters for a week or so and settled down on these. Some of my friends prefer Linear6 in my system/room which is pretty much neutral. Filters are great feature on M1 and will be very useful to compensate for the overall sound of your system, so it really depends of system you have and your preferences for sound in general. Also you can smooth out not so great recordings if you will. |
