class d

I've owned CI Audio D200, NuForce Ref9.02SE V2, Bel Canto Ref1000.

They each have strengths and weaknesses. The NuForce sounded most natural to my ears (unlike the God awful earlier NuForce amps), but they did not double power as impedance is halved, and therefore the sound they produced on my speakers was unbalanced. Bass was a bit shy.

The Bel Canto had great bass and balanced sound, but the top end was hot and tizzy.

The CI Audio did just about everything right, but they sounded flat and sterile.

I just didn't connect with any of them.

Agreed.

08-01-08: Jimmy3993
I am curious about class D and seeing that there are vaired points of view cements my decision to bring a couple home for a listen.

That's what counts, and all that matters.

IMO, there should be no issues with matching a preamplifier and amplifier from the same manufacturer. If there are issues, then something's wrong.

Jimmy3993, the small usable range of volume control on your preamp is a function of gain matching rather than impedance matching, IMO. Your preamp appears to have too much gain for your amps.

Is there somewhere I can go to reaserch the gain of different pre amps?
Jimmy3993 (System | Threads | Answers)

Output gain on preamp (as well as input gain on an amp) is a specification that's stated by manufacturers 99% of the time in the product literature or on the manufacturer's website.

FWIW, IMO most preamps have way more gain than necessary. 10-12dB is usually sufficient with the majority of amps.

08-21-08: Jimmy3993
More conversation with nuforce. They gave me directions to open the pre and
move a jumper to cut the gain by 1/2. So I gave it a shot but when I opened it
up it didnt really look like he picture. Turns out that the demo version i was
sent has an old board without the jumper.

I was going stay quiet on this, but your news above changed my mind.

How can a company send out a demo unit that is not current with the latest
production version? What if you had decided you really liked the preamp, and
you wanted to purchase it? Would NuForce have notified you that the demo
unit wasn't up to current spec and sent you a new one? I doubt it. Sounds like
they weren't aware that the unit you had wasn't a model with the most recent
board.

From the outset, NuForce seems to have been a company that uses their
customers as paying beta testers. During the course of two or three years,
they would release new version after new version of their amps within months
of the previous models, which were touted as the greatest thing
in hifi. One would buy their product, and then two months later the amp
would have to be shipped back to NuForce for the latest upgrades. A few
months after that, the process would repeat. This only stopped with the
release of their Ref 9 V2SE, which I demoed and thought was an excellent
amplifier if paired with appropriate speakers. However, based on your preamp
experience it sounds to me like NuForce still doesn't quite have its act
together with the preamp.

I think if you want a product for the long term, that has been tested and
refined BEFORE it was brought to market, and if you want to avoid being a
beta tester for a product for which you have paid a good sum of money, then
you would be well advised to look at a different brand.

08-21-08: Jimmy3993
I can give them a "pass" on not knowing that the pre wasn't
current because they weren't planning on sending it
out.

A company should know exactly what they're sending out for customer
evaluation. Otherwise, how can a proper evaluation be performed (as you
discovered)?

You cannot know if the unit you have will sound the same or different from a
unit with the correct board installed.

This service from NuForce is slipshod, IMO.

Yours is the first.

My opinion is unchanged, though.

Going back to the Reference 8, there have been more than two upgrades to NuForce amps. Perhaps two upgrades is true for the Reference 9 series.

In any case, it's water under the bridge.

I demoed the Ref 9V2 SE. Thought they were good, but not the best match for my speakers, and I moved on. I wish the amps doubled output as impedance is halved, but they don't. NuForce seems to have gotten the amplifiers dialed in pretty well, and they certainly slowed down the upgrades which is a plus.

I'm still of the opinion that sending out a preamp with an outdated board for a customer demo is pretty boneheaded.

I've been trying to think of preamp options that have HT bypass and balanced operation for under $2k, and the choices seem slim.

Audio Horizons might be willing to build one of their TP2.1 preamps with a HT Bypass if you asked them. I once demoed a TP2.1 with a tape loop that Joseph installed at my request (although I had to sacrifice an output).

08-21-08: Stltrains
I got my first hole in one today after 28 years of playing golf.

Heartfelt congratulations to you!

Ironically, had no idea you used an AH preamp.

Perhaps this is a sign for the OP.

08-21-08: Stltrains
I got my first hole in one today after 28 years of playing golf.

Heartfelt congratulations to you!

Ironically, had no idea you used an AH preamp.

Perhaps this is a sign for the OP.

(BTW, be sure to read the steaming thread. Turns out the Perfection steamer's power cord contains lead...a chemical known to cause cancer. A warning label is on the BOTTOM of the Perfection box. No wonder Walgreens is blowing them out.)