Volume not to be confused with db? Hmmm…I'm a professional live sound engineer so I actually know some things (and I'm not very smart so there's plenty I don't know)...also, I use 2 REL subs in a 20X30 ft room with 91DB rated main speakers and a 12 watt per side single ended tube amp, and it can go to room filling loudness at levels that are too loud for my listening "sweet spot" unless I'm very drunk…in which case it just doesn't matter anyway…but Heresy IIIs will fill a largish room easily with very little wattage, only limited to the previously noted low frequency range easily remedied with one or two possibly used (like mine) subs…my RELs, a Q108eMK2 (100 watts, 8") and a Q150e (150 watt 10") cost around 200 bucks each and are amazing sounding.
Disappointed w/ Klipsch Heresy III. Now what?
I'd be very grateful for some help with a quandary.
I recently replaced my Ohm Walsh 1000 speakers with Heresy III speakers, running two-channel from a Rega Brio. I was pretty excited about the Heresy IIIs based on reviews — they were efficient, so my 35-watt amp would get the job done; they were supposed to have real punch in the low mid-range, so I could hear the upright bass clearly; they reportedly had excellent imaging; and best of all, they were supposed to sound great at low volumes. They are also indisputably beautiful, which was an important factor for my wife. (The Ohms are elegant, but you have to be an audio lover to see their beauty.)
I set them up, and . . . not so bad, pretty good. Especially loud. In fact the louder the better. Crank them up and they sing. But loud is not really an option with a new baby. So how do they sound quiet? They sound like the band is trapped in shoe box. Really in two shoe boxes because the L and R don't merge that well. The sound stage is tiny. All the detail is gone, the joy is gone. They are no fun at all. Music just seems like a bunch of noise.
But I want to believe! I want to make these speakers work. So I am faced with a quandary. I could:
1. Buy stands, a subwoofer and a tube amp, all of which people in various forums have recommended to improve the various failings I hear now.
2. Replace the Rega with something much more powerful and pull the Ohms out of the closet. (Suboptimal because it will make my wife sad because of the aforementioned perceived ugliness.)
3. Just start all over again. Different amp, different speakers.
I'd kind of prefer number 1. But I don't want to end up with a bunch of stuff designed to solve a problem and then not have that problem solved! (And I'd also just as soon avoid getting a subwoofer.)
Final note. Positioning is an intractable nightmare. It is the one thing that I can't really change, because of how our living room is layed out. It is obviously a big problem though. The living room is a big rectangle, 18 x 40 feet, and the speakers are near the corners of the 18-foot ends, on either side of a couch. I can move them around — closer or further from the couch, closer or further from the wall. But I can't raise them above the height of the couch or move them out in front or over to another wall. That discussion went nowhere!
What should I do?
I recently replaced my Ohm Walsh 1000 speakers with Heresy III speakers, running two-channel from a Rega Brio. I was pretty excited about the Heresy IIIs based on reviews — they were efficient, so my 35-watt amp would get the job done; they were supposed to have real punch in the low mid-range, so I could hear the upright bass clearly; they reportedly had excellent imaging; and best of all, they were supposed to sound great at low volumes. They are also indisputably beautiful, which was an important factor for my wife. (The Ohms are elegant, but you have to be an audio lover to see their beauty.)
I set them up, and . . . not so bad, pretty good. Especially loud. In fact the louder the better. Crank them up and they sing. But loud is not really an option with a new baby. So how do they sound quiet? They sound like the band is trapped in shoe box. Really in two shoe boxes because the L and R don't merge that well. The sound stage is tiny. All the detail is gone, the joy is gone. They are no fun at all. Music just seems like a bunch of noise.
But I want to believe! I want to make these speakers work. So I am faced with a quandary. I could:
1. Buy stands, a subwoofer and a tube amp, all of which people in various forums have recommended to improve the various failings I hear now.
2. Replace the Rega with something much more powerful and pull the Ohms out of the closet. (Suboptimal because it will make my wife sad because of the aforementioned perceived ugliness.)
3. Just start all over again. Different amp, different speakers.
I'd kind of prefer number 1. But I don't want to end up with a bunch of stuff designed to solve a problem and then not have that problem solved! (And I'd also just as soon avoid getting a subwoofer.)
Final note. Positioning is an intractable nightmare. It is the one thing that I can't really change, because of how our living room is layed out. It is obviously a big problem though. The living room is a big rectangle, 18 x 40 feet, and the speakers are near the corners of the 18-foot ends, on either side of a couch. I can move them around — closer or further from the couch, closer or further from the wall. But I can't raise them above the height of the couch or move them out in front or over to another wall. That discussion went nowhere!
What should I do?
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- 182 posts total
I’ve been giving more serious consideration to trying out higher efficiency speakers with my 60w//ch digital integrated amp mainly to go louder and similarly clear when needed. Current speakers are 89db refurbed OHM Ls. Been eyeballing used Klipsch Forte or Heresy and newer very high efficiency Klipsch monitors with 8" bass drivers similar to the Ls. These have similar frequency response specs but with sensitivity in the high 90s for $600 pair. What to loose trying at that price? These specifically: http://images.klipsch.com/RB81IIcutsheet_635042118979170000.pdf Similar smaller Klipsch monitors I’ve heard in passing sounded good enough to make the cut. Can’t be too big or wide in particular. Will be about 2’ out from rear wall. Would like to try something that has bass well down into the 40s (Klipsch monitors), 30s if possible (Forte). Heresy does not make that cut without subs I think and I’d rather not have to deal with subs if possible. I also may get to hear larger Tektons this weekend if I make it Capital Audiofest as planned. We’ll see how that goes as well. Have heard Zu Essence I believe several times at shows and never quite floated my boat so far. Might try again. |
The RB-81II's are pretty big sounding for "bookshelf" speakers and can be driven pretty well with 60w/ch. Before you pull the trigger on those, look on the used market for a pair of RB-75's. They will command a higher price but you will get real wood veneer, a 1.75" titanium true compression driver, and a solid cabinet at 32lbs each. Though my pair sounded awesome with great low frequency extension(nearing 40Hz) in my room, I did add a nice sub to fill in the bottom. Bill |
It’s your amp. Period. With these speakers (and they are AMAZING and replaced $20k speakers for me, and I would never go back to those high dollar boxes) you need QUALITY amplification and high current. Big transformers help. Yes, they are efficient but need that quality amplification, preferably tube as SS will make them sound thin and edgy. I use a Line Magnetic 219ia with mine and its the best sound I have ever had in my home after adding quality cables as well. YES, cables make a huge difference even though expensive is not always better. Also, if your room is large, you would need larger speakers. These excel in small rooms. Mine is 12x12. I sit around 7 ft from the speakers which are out in the room and toed in. RICH wall of sound with some of the best imaging and soundstage width I have ever heard. These speakers, when set up correctly in a smaller room are pure magic. The biggest sound I have experienced here over 20 years of high audio systems. So these love high quality tube amplification. They love good speaker cable and they sound best for me away from the walls and into the room a bit. I will never get rid of these as for the money they can not be beat. Not even for $5k or even $7500 (if room size and amplification is right). I got lucky with synergy here I guess. I did try these with a $7k SS amp and they sounded dry, and had not so hot low volume performance. With tubes I use around 1/4 watt for low level late night listening and get rich, full magical sound. I use Audioquest Colorado IC’s, Gibraltar Speaker cable and a Niagra 1000 with a Tornado power cable. I use a blue sound node for digital, using its dac and also vinyl with a Marantz TT15 and musical fidelity MX VINYL. My review: http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/klipsch-heresy-iii-speaker-review-im-floored-and-here-is-why/ |
Now that my new Heresy IIIs have settled in I can say they’re nothing short of amazing in my 20 X 30 foot slant (tall) ceilinged room. I tried ’em on stands for a while and although I have 2 excellent REL subs, I put them back on the floor with their little slant risers as somehow they seem to thrive that way…they’re on 1.5" butcher blocks decoupled with Vibrapods (don’t want my wood floors intruding on anything, so the "pods" are directly under the speakers and the butcher blocks just have small feet which makes the whole thing easier to move for position tweaking). Interestingly (or not…I’m never sure) the Heresy cabinet is one of the most inert I’ve used…put your hand on the cabinet side when some bass is pumping through them and note zero vibration, which says to me they’re very solid, or the bass is anemic…maybe both…but the RELs more than make up for any low frequency issues although it took a while to readjust them as less power gets to them now. My little single ended "Fire Bottle" amp is sending so much less wattage to the Heresys than with my previous speakers, and different frequency adjustments for the subs needed attention…no biggie and hat’s off to efficiency, which was my main objective in buying these speakers in the first place. I think efficiency translates into "instantaneous dynamic tone bursts" with any amp, but that could be my fertile imagination at work. I do agree with others who state the obvious that "better in means better out," as these speakers don’t disguise an "iffy" amp or cables, and they have a sweet and direct coherency that I’m enjoying. When I feel any recording lacks highs or lows, or Fletcher Munson is in da house (late night…you know), I dial in my Schiit Loki and those speakers respond like the thing was designed for them. Get a Loki…they’re cheap although unbalanced, not unlike myself. |
- 182 posts total