@paulcreed
You're kind of a bully. You demand I answer to questions when you don't answer mine. Guess we'll both wait.
Go ahead and post your problem. You have my word I won't interject so much as one letter. |
Hi Paul, yes it is long to burn NCF, but you would hear improvement and the signature in the beginning. I also try the Furutech Wall Plate, on a Gold Furutech receptacle, and the result is amazing, it calms the vibrations and there is more informations discovered. I also change the speaker binding post, with Furutech Rodium, and I am realy happy of the result also. Happy listening. |
@ paulcreed, I also have and use the furutech receptacle cover plate🎼🎶🎵. |
Today makes 3 weeks, I put them back on 24/7 couple days ago and I still think they need more time. Highs are nice but the bass and fullness is lacking, I may be around 450 hours. Has anybody had problems with bass this far in breakin process? Did anyone find even with 1000 or more hrs or fully broken in bass was not as full or big as before adding NCF? Maybe tighter bass but not as big or full. This is a bad ride trying to break in these little outlets.
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Paul, I say it’s long enough, but as you know other posters have indicated otherwise. At this point, I would test with another power cable(s) from the outlet to see if it may be a synergy issue. Have you checked the wire to the outlet to verify there are no loose connections? |
I dunno guys I have at least 14 of the NCF outlets and some NCF inlets and I don’t recall having any problems with them from the start. I guess they did get better with time, I don’t remember.
I use all Cerious Matrix cables so perhaps they lessened the break in variations that others have noted.
Paul, are you sure you did not reverse wire the load and neutral?
ozzy
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I don't believe they are reversed. I have black to brass screws. I may check for piece of mind. It's not there is no bass just not as before outlet install. I would think 450 hours would be sufficient time, but what do I know never used rhodium before. I'll flip some power cord around to see if there is a change. Only though is years ago I reconfigured system and cables were pulled and system was not used for 3 or 4 days. It took a couple days of running system to come back way it sounded before. Maybe I'm not using enough current for breakin due to no solid state amps to run 24/7 playing music. I'm not ready to give up yet because highs are better than I've ever heard in this system. |
When you're using the Furutech GTX Rhodium plated outlet in the wall, what you are describing is fairly common from what I've read.
Theoretically speaking I don't understand why but theory doesn't always explain a lot of what we hear with high-end audio interconnects etc. Patience is a virtue! |
We are heading to beach for day, was going to keep it on burn in. I couldn't handle not trying if it did anything overnight before I left. I'll be damn it's full and big again. Last night you couldn't even hear the kick drum and was way over shadowed with highs. You can fell the bass pressure in the room now lows and highs have balance. This thing swings soniclly during breakin more than anything I've tried while in this hobby. All I can do is cross my fingers and try to be patient if things go bad again. It's back on breakin items again while I'm gone.
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@ paulcreed, Did you read my 5-18-18 post?, I also said to you in another post that the furutech gtx-Rhodium duplex NCF receptacle’s is a roller coaster ride, meaning during break in, the sound go’s up and down, worst break in ordeal than anything in 40yrs🤓 |
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audiolab, I do, 40 years and roller coaster ride helped me feel I'm not nuts. What I don't understand is how so many people can have such a different experience. Some 200, 500 to 700 hours and ozzy never heard a problem from the beginning. I don't doubt anyone's findings. Only thing I do know is I hear things that have no explanation why and have to explain to a friends wife tonight why I have 2 old computer towers 3 fans, 2 little LCD Tv's facing the wall, an old wii, 2 receivers running full blast in a music room. She thinks I'm nuts! But when the music is playing right it's all worth it, like it is right now. Hope it stays this way and breakin is over, but it may sound like a big transistor radio tomorrow who knows. |
Just coming back after 10 days out of town. I may have to revise my original estimate of 200-240 hours burn in. I have just done a burn in on new components and a brand spanking new receiver. Receiver has a fully burned-in Furutech fuse. The power cord and speaker cable are well used Audioquest stuff. However, the speaker terminations are NEW Fureutech rhodium spades/bananas. The power cord also has NEW Furutech Rhodium IEC/Male connectors. At about 200-250 hours it was still going up and down with changes. Today, it's at about 420 or so hours. It is calmed down, but I still think the system has a slight hard edge to it. This was the final touches in my mom's system and I had to leave to come home again. lol. In the end, I think it depends on how much resolution the system has. If you are working with a very warm sounding system, these burn-in exercises may not affect you quite as much. However, with a very revealing system, you could be in for a long term burn-in experience. Though, Rhodium is the way to go if you want the best in resolution. |
Just a thought but if Ozzy was using his BSG qol Signal Completion Stage in his system that component might mask and/or smooth over the break-in of the new Fureutech outlets. |
I suppose any thing is possible since all our systems are unique.
Does Furutech provide any recommendations?
ozzy
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@paulcreed 500hrs that's the number for sure, not just my opinion.
450hrs one day ago, your almost there! My prediction Wednesday you will be one happy camper.
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@ paulcreed, I believe auxinput nailed it on the head with this, quote- In the end, I think it depends on how much resolution the system has. If you are working with a very warm sounding system, these burn-in exercises may not affect you quite as much. However, with a very revealing system, you could be in for a long term burn-in experience. Though, Rhodium is the way to go if you want the best in resolution. Personally I run my tube/solid state hybrid digital player with a $5,500.00 power cord that has oyaida plugs on it straight to the amplifier, so yes, absolutely, it has to do with resolution of any given system. |
So, this +- 500 hr breakin, is that for the duplex unit as a whole, or per plug? I would imagine if crystals need to allign, or whatever else voodoo is taking place, needs to happen where ever current flow takes place, so each recepticle needs roughly that time? |
As it turns out from experience, the break- in is for each plug in on every duplex, sorry paulcreed, I should have told you this. |
All was well Sunday, Monday. Last night bass was thin highs unlistenable. Didn't spend much time listening just enough to see what's going on last few nights My system is slight on warm side of neutral. I have not stopped burn in. I'm not sure what's going on but I'm to the point of boxing everything and dropping it off at Goodwill. I'm wondering if a furutech gold added to the mix may help in the long run.
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@ paulcreed, Been awhile, need to mention that you need to run system 12 hrs and then turn off at night, do process all over again each day, this needs to be done after 450 hrs, be patient my friend, I would like for you to keep me informed here with progress, remember, the extended high’s come in at 700 hrs like a brick up side the head, believe me, you will know when the treble detail kicks in. |
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Will do audiolab, had some time to kill on road this morning and called furutech dealer I bought from. He said at least 6 week burnin and it is normal for it to swing like this even with 450 to 500 hours. Loss of bass etched highs. Last night the highs were almost the worst I've heard during this process, like broken glass. He also mentioned these outlets are very system dependent on how they react. He builds his statement power conditioners with these NCF's outlets so he has to have some experience and feed back from customers. Will try 12 and 12, what a crazy hobby! |
Paul, I have experienced that harsh broken glass sound as well at times where I thought it was burned in. It is also like some evenings it sounds okay but the next day it will be really bad and un-listenable. |
What do you think is actually happening during this "burn in" process that would explain the purported sound changes?
Outside audiophile lore, I've never heard any electrician or electrical engineer (who isn't selling high end audio products) say any receptacles need "burn in" for any reason.
So I'm wondering what the actual technical reason would be for this "burn in" phenomenon and why it would alter sound.
(In my own experience, I've never heard a difference whether I've changed the outlets where my equipment was plugged in, including moving to a new dedicated outlet, or whether it's plugged in to my Furman power conditioner/bar).
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Ah, the curious, probing mind of the audio skeptic. Why do receptacles need burn in? Why do cables need burn in? Why do fuses need burn in? Why do capacitors need burn in? Why does contact enhancer need burn in? Why, why, why?! Sweet mystery of life. Why do the stars go on shining? Why do the birds go on singing? 🤡
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In some cases, length of burn-in time = our ears/brain need longer than usual to get used to the new sound. Nothing more. |
Assuming for the sake of argument there is such a thing as break-in for wall receptacles, capacitors, fuses and such audiophile niceties how on Earth can someone, especially the sort of obsessive compulsive perfectionist that would indulge in these sorts of things possibly be able to keep track of his sound from day to day, day to night, week to week, in good weather and bad, even if he made no changes to his system, added no new tweaks, etc., which would be very difficult to swallow given their obsessiveness. Somehow I can’t imagine audiophiles sitting around for days or even weeks on end checking the sound out and watching the paint on the walls peel. There’s not enough time! There’s work to be done. Hel-loo! If you aren’t bothered sitting around doing nothing for days or weeks at a time you don’t understand the problem. Do I believe it when someone says it takes 8 weeks for a thing to break in or even 200 hours through experience? Well, probably not.
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Ah, the curious, probing mind of the audio skeptic. Why do receptacles need burn in? Why do cables need burn in? Why do fuses need burn in? Why do capacitors need burn in? Why does contact enhancer need burn in? Why, why, why?! Sweet mystery of life. Why do the stars go on shining? Why do the birds go on singing? Yes, what a terribly strange thing to wonder why and ask for explanations and evidence, instead of just taking things on faith and singing hallelujah with the choir. How’s your cult going geoff? Are your members numbering above "1" yet? ;-) |
"I can’t imagine audiophiles sitting around for days or even weeks on end checking the sound out and watching the paint on the walls peel."
You are incorrect, once more, they are not watching the paint on the walls peel.
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If you listened to your HiFi "break in" over a period of weeks and you listened to it daily, which most of you profess to do, the change in sound daily would be so small you wouldn't notice. By that stage the system componentry will have begun to degrade so it all amounts to BS anyway. |
amg56
If you listened to your HiFi "break in" over a period of weeks and you listened to it daily, which most of you profess to do, the change in sound daily would be so small you wouldn’t notice. By that stage the system componentry will have begun to degrade so it all amounts to BS anyway.
>>>I simply spray Geritol on all the componentry from time to time. I find that keeps them young and feeling fresh.
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jetter
"I can’t imagine audiophiles sitting around for days or even weeks on end checking the sound out and watching the paint on the walls peel."
You are incorrect, once more, they are not watching the paint on the walls peel.
>>>>>Or perhaps, like yourself, they’re sniffing the paint fumes. Who knows for sure? |
prof
geoffkait “Ah, the curious, probing mind of the audio skeptic. Why do receptacles need burn in? Why do cables need burn in? Why do fuses need burn in? Why do capacitors need burn in? Why does contact enhancer need burn in? Why, why, why?! Sweet mystery of life. Why do the stars go on shining? Why do the birds go on singing?”
Yes, what a terribly strange thing to wonder why and ask for explanations and evidence, instead of just taking things on faith and singing hallelujah with the choir.
>>>>What’s strange is the incessant longwinded barrage of self satisfied pseudo skepticism and anti tweak rhetoric spewed out. What makes it even creepier, if possible, is your confession that tweaks don’t really do anything in your system.
How’s your cult going geoff? Are your members numbering above "1" yet? ;-)
>>>In case you weren’t paying attention, Professor, I am one of the biggest sellers and have the most positive feedback, on the way to 4,000, thank you very much, extant on Audiogon. Your wit not withstanding. Well half of one, anyway. I’ll have to start calling you The Absent Minded Professor. |
On behalf of myself, and probably an exceedingly high percentage of both the Agon vocal and silent majority, I would like to mention that the most amazing thing I have read in all my 15 to 20 years on Audiogon, is that you have close to 4,000 positives. You don't have to confess, but if you do you will feel a lot better, your conscience cleansed. Come on tell us, you found a way to hack the feedback system? |
jitter, I had a feeling you’d like that. Call it ESP. It’s not all fun and games, though. It’s lonely at the top. 😬
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Geoff, I mean no disrespect, but paint peeling off walls, Geritol, I don't get it. A lot of words but not much content. Maybe I missed something, if so sorry. I'm a 55 year old drummer and guitar player since age of 12. I own Gretch round badge, stop sign badge, Ludwig classic, Fibes Austin Jasper shells,DW, zildjian A's, K's and over 20 snare drums. Martin D28, Hummingbird, Strat ,les Paul, SG, Telecaster and spend time in studios. All these instruments have there own sound. In my system I can hear the brand of instrument that was chosen for the recording if I am familiar with it. Most of the time breaking in this outlet I can't tell the difference between an A or K cymbal. I'm at 4 weeks running through a Running Springs Audio Dmitri with a RSA HZ power cord from wall to RSA. Maybe when breaking in power related products the type of power conditioner used is a big factor why mileage varies.My system has been the same for years. I Just listen to music not the system. Geoff you brag about selling so much gear are you never happy with your system.
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paulcreed
Geoff you brag about selling so much gear are you never happy with your system.
I wasn’t really bragging, I was responding to a pseudo skeptic who was being fresh. I am actually rather humble about it, it’s the first time I ever mentioned it in all these years. Am I ever happy with my system? Do you mean happy like a contented cow happy? 🐄 Happy like a clown happy? 🤡
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Sorry for misunderstanding, that many feedbacks and all positive you definitely deserve a pat on the back!
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Most people don't listen to music actively. a quote I remember from an old Stereophile mag, "Most people like the idea of music."
Have others experienced this: in the general admission seating at outdoor concerts, most people are talking throughout the show so that there's a constant buzz in the air? When did this begin to happen and why?
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Like evolution being a fact, some equipment,cables, fuses, etc need time to break in. Based on 15 years of listening, Its obvious to my ear that this is true. And, are you sitting down, my stereo sounds better after the circuitry has warmed up for a 1/2 hour or so. And still more madness. Ready for this one, get the padded room available, it sounds better later at night then the rest of the day.
To all you snake oilers, there's is more in heaven and earth than is dreampt of in your philosophy. Electro-magnetism, she is a strange and wonderful mistress
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